Shadowrun 4e - Some quick questions

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Thanks, Ipissimus.

So, I bought the 4th edition, and read it over the course of two days. I like how the rules have changed in a lot of ways, though it is still a bit confusing to me. I guess I'm too used to d20; these sort of complex rules systems used to be second nature to me.

I even made a generic character and ran him in a fight against some basic thugs as described in the GM section; my basic shadowrunner wiped the floor with them. I guess that's to be expected, though. When I ran him against three of the same thugs, my shadowrunner lived, but only thanks to the fact that he had armour, and they didn't.

The "roll to dodge" attacks bit is not something I'm fond of (it's why I dropped the d6 system, really), but I'm willing to give it a try here. Though, I sort of like how earlier SR editions just had flat modifiers based on the character's cover; it made the combat seem a lot more tactical, and less skill-based.

(In my opinion, no one is ever really trained to "dodge bullets"; most smart people are trained to "hide behind cover". Since dodge is described mostly as just moving to not get hit, and cover grants a seperate bonus, I feel you can't just say "Dodge IS using cover". But I digress).

What really got me is the same thing that ultimately stopped me when I picked up 3e; I have no idea how to run SR adventures. While I generally run "sandbox" adventures as Ipissimus already mentioned, I felt like I was hitting a brick wall in how to stage SR adventures. My basic model was always: PCs meet at a location, get a job, hit a corp, steal information, and get out in a firefight.

It wasn't something I was fond of, and most of the adventures in my mind just couldn't be expanded enough to really work.

So, I went out today and bought the GM's screen (first time I've ever paid for a screen, I think!) - and it really helps to have all those tables. It includes a 32 page booklet of adventure ideas and an adventure generator (this is why I bought the thing, initially), and many of those ideas helped me figure something out.

Interesting. That's my problem, too. How should an effective Shadowrun adventure, heck a succesful Shadowrun campaign look like? Basically, the traditional "run" is what a dungeon crawl is for D&D. You could to it a thousand times, but it gets boring. There is no creativity in it. You can't really tell interesting stories, since the characters basically just infiltrate, kill some guards, steal some data, and get out. They don't interact with anyone in interesting ways.

I suppose I should pick up the Screen and heed your advice below, if I ever come back to running an SR game again.

Shadowrun isn't really a game about the combat, or investigations, or hacking. It's more about contact-building, and generally just looking badass. I've already written an adventure checklist in my head. Each adventure needs to have:

1) A combat, with multiple combatants on each side.
2) A hacking scene, or an encounter best served by hacking.
3) Some sort of magical encounter, or an area that can be bypassed by magical surveillance.
4) An investigation scene, or an extended "legwork" bit.
5) Using contacts.
6) Some sort of reference to the high tech level.

The big problem with the given adventure generator, though, is it makes it pretty much a given that Mr. Johnson is going to screw you over somehow; I tend to think that Johnson should only screw off PCs about one time in five, or else it'll be something the players expect too much ("Oh, hey. Johnson screwed us over again. Thankfully, we figured this would happen. Plan B, boys." compared to "It's a double cross! GET OUT OF HERE NOW!")

I think our group's saying is somewhere above, but I'll repeat it: "It isn't Shadowrun if Johnson doesn't frack* you twice". Off course, it gets old, very fast, and I'd try to avoid it. There wouldn't be any Shadowrunner around if that would happen every time. (Or no Johnsons any more. Shadowrunners are vicious, and revenge is a dish best served violently...)

I think the larger idea behind Johnson screwing you is that there has to be a twist in every story. And since the only real "story-part" is with Johnson, he has to screw you over. If the characters were more involved int he story behind a run, you could do a lot more interesting stuff.
But even within the limits, there are other possibilities.
- Johnson doesn't try to screw you, but someone tries to screw him. The runners must intervene, if they want to survive.
- Johnson was misinformed, and the target you are extracting/stealing/infiltrating is not what it seems to be.
- You get to screw Johnson. There is a counter-offer around, and it's good (the "it's good" part can be hard - screwing your Johnson is not good for a runners reputation)

Anyways, I'm liking what I've got so far. Does anyone have any info on the 4e supplements, creating adventures, or how to turn SR into a campaign?

Nope, not really. I really wish I had.

*or screw, if you prefer.

 

[Ipissimus]

Yeah, the old betrayal bit is good once or twice every now and again.

The way I work a Shadowrun campaign is much different than the way I run a DnD campaign. I take most of my influences off of games like GTA and other sandbox-style video games. I use Seattle as an open world, the Runners have free reign to do whatever they want as long as they can get away with it realistically. They know that I'll lose no sleep over killing one of them if they stuff up (unlike DnD where I tend to be more generous).

For missions, I create a job, I set parameters for the Runner's success, create a situation, throw in a twist (last session, they ran into another team of Runners who were hired to assassinate the guy they were meant to protect, that sort of thing) wind my players up and let 'em go. Let them figure out how to pull off the job, as long as you don't make anything absolutely impossible (just very difficult), their ingenuity will surprise you.

 

[Serendipity]

I just started a 4e game; our first play session per se is on Saturday - so far we've got chargen out of the way. Understand, I ran the game for about two years under 1e, and played (quite enjoyablY) for about the time under 2e..........and then went on to other things. So far my rules memory is proving to be more liability than anything else.
I'll let you know how the game goes on Saturday if you like - so far I can say this: chargen is a giant PITA. Arbitrarily overcomplicated. Very FASA-like in that sense.

 

[Fenes]

I have been running weekly D&D and SR campaigns for years.

For a campaign, there are basically two ways that are easy to run:

1. Have the group have a goal (like revenge on a Johnson, or saving an orphanage, or finding a lost artifact), and mix runs that are pure business with runs the PCs started to come closer to their goal.

2. Create one or more groups that have goals, which in turn hire the runners to achieve their goals. Like two corporations struggling over control of a joint venture, hiring runners to influence shareholders, sabotage rivals, etc. Or some foundation gathering parts of an artifact, sending out runners to recover them one by one. Or an ambitious mafia member wanting to rise to the top of the family, and using runners for that.

I'd also advocate paying a lot of attention to daily life. A number of runs can be generated just from daily life struggles of runners. Dealing with the gang hassling a runner's home, for example.

And of course, check dumpshock.

Edit: Almost forgot: How many dice you roll depends on your characters. With my group, the top is about 15 dice in one skill, most roll around the 10 range for their good skills, and lower for secondaries.

 

[Andor]

As our group says "It isn't Shadowrun if Johnson doesn't frack you twice".

The big problem with the given adventure generator, though, is it makes it pretty much a given that Mr. Johnson is going to screw you over somehow; I tend to think that Johnson should only screw off PCs about one time in five, or else it'll be something the players expect too much ("Oh, hey. Johnson screwed us over again. Thankfully, we figured this would happen. Plan B, boys." compared to "It's a double cross! GET OUT OF HERE NOW!")

Yeah the "Mr. Johnson will screw you" thing was very very overplayed. In my old group we eventually made it a point to fully investigate Mr. Johnson and bring proof of countermeasures to the meet in order to make it extremely clear that trying to screw us was a bad plan. We found there is nothing like showing Mr. J a live video feed of his children (with targeting reticles) to dampen his enthusiasm for the screwjob.

 

[Wik]

So, a minor "apology" to SR designers. Turns out, the dodge skill only applies to melee combat, apparently. I had no idea. Maybe I'm reading this wrong. Damn rules confuse me, at times.

Now, that being said... thanks for the feedback, all, and keep it coming! I'm writing up my first adventure - basically, it's from the adventure ideas, and it more or less involves the PCs being hired by a street gang to destroy a meth lab. The twist? The meth lab has children in it. Should be fun.

Also, I found the main SR site (www.Shadowrun4.com, I believe), and it has a few free adventures, so I'm going to check that out.

Really, Ipissimus, I tend to go with the sandbox idea with urban adventures, too... but the problem is, you need a few adventures to start things up. To give PCs an idea of what they're doing, and to give some time to build up contacts, enemies, allies, etc.