Shadowrun War! "Arbeit Macht Frei!"

This should be restated.

If we are restating things we should also say Loren Coleman who stole money from the mouths of freelancers and ignored a cease and desist order from wildfire to stop printing cthuhlutech until they paid up their debt and also the guy who didnt show up for court after which their lawyer quit.

IS STILL CEO OF CGL!
 

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Ok... gonna try and tread lightly here.

First: This is not the first time Auschwitz has been detailed. It got a similar treatment in Shadows of Europe back in 2003 or 2004. There was no outcry there.

After the Awakening, many former battlefields and sites of carnage from Europe's many wars became haunted by ghosts. Even the recent Euro Wars left their mark, as witnessed by the specters lingering in the battlefields of Pustynia near Warsaw-Lodz. But the most haunted and spiritually corrupt areas by far are those where great massacres occurred, particularly former Nazi concentration camps and the Warsaw ghetto.

The city of Oswiecim stands right next to the Auschwitz-Birkenau, the Nazis' largest concentration camp. For over twenty years after the Awakening, the ghosts of this camp's victims drove all life from this region, occasionally haunting nearby areas and even Krakow as well. The Sylvestrines erected a massive spirit barrier (Force 8 ) around the area in 2035, and maintain it to this day along with patrols of watchers.

Within the barrier, thousands of apparitions, specters, and unique ghosts (see pp. 120-2, MitS) are contained, waiting to unleash their pain, misery, and wrath on any metahumans foolish enough to venture within. The camp itself has a Background Count of 5 (petering down to 3 in Oswiecim and 2 or 1 a few kilometers out), and the gas chambers and other buildings razed by the Nazis to hide their atrocities appear as (sometimes materialized) astral constructs (see pp. 100-2, T: AL).

Again you'll see the reference to ghosts, but it also refers you to the section of Magic in the Shadows (the 3rd ed magic supplement) where 'ghosts' are explicitly defined as spirits who have latched on to a particular area.

Second: The freelancer who wrote the section is pretty obviously one of the new guys brought in to replace the writers who left. When he posted on the official Shadowrun site because of the controversy his piece was causing it was his very first post. Chances are he had a very brief overview of what exactly Shadowrun was and then was told he was supposed to write something about Poland. Then he read the Poland entry in SoE and ran with it. He probably knew enough to know that Shadowrun is supposed to be 'edgy' and full of 'gray morality' so he took it in that direction.

Third: In keeping with the 'black hat' theme this led to a situation where a plot hook was tossed out suggesting the existence of an amoral individual who wants to either A: profit off the discovery of stuff found in the ruins. or B: Profit off equipping runners with phony ghostbusting gear and sending them into the camp to get chewed up.
 

Imperialus, I think we should stick with the text here. I don't think my formulation is an unreasonable reading of the text.

Now, you probably have a good argument for Shadowrun not being like that generally, and perhaps for the text merely being a poor communication of the setting (i.e. it might even be the case that the text doesn't mean just what it says). That's fine: I'm not a fan of SR but I don't have anything against it. However, the text we were given upthread is pretty dodgy.

Because taking book quotes out of context has worked so well for RPG's in the past right?

*edit* just so I'm being perfectly clear, I do believe that War is a flawed book on many levels, particularly when compared to the work they were producing prior to the Lorn Coleman incident. It has obviously suffered a great deal from the problems that CGL has had over the past year.

That said I love Shadowrun. I desperately want the line to get back on its feet because I want to be able to continue pretending to be an elf with a machine gun. I'm disappointed with War, I don't feel it lived up to its potential but I also told myself this past summer that I would give CGL a year to get its house in order.

Also, MortonStormgal: I really don't want to get into the Lorn Coleman is evil song and dance routine again. I will point out however that the freelancers were paid, the court case against CGL was thrown out, and their license with Topps was renewed.
 
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First, nobody is saying Auschwitz and the Holocaust are off-limits for an RPG. Indeed, it would be hard to do an RPG like Godlike without addressing it. It is the how that has people reacting, especially since SR has not given a hard & fast definition of what spirits of consciousness are. That the game leaves it ambiguous as to whether "ghosts" are spirits conforming to an echo of a past tragedy or are actual manifestations of the dead should serve as a great big "WARNING!: proceed with caution!" sign for those writing Shadowrun descriptions of RW atrocities.

Second, that the freelancer was new is ZERO EXCUSE. If you're going to use freelancers, it is your company's duty to inform them as to game fluff & mechanics, and if his or her submissions are not in conformity to the rest of the company's line, it should not be released- end of story.

Third, the black hat option is the only one mentioned- no counterpoint of a white hat is even suggested, which, given the touchiness of the situation, would have been extremely prudent.
 
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Bthe court case against CGL was thrown out,

Settled out of court is not thrown out and Tops now has someone overseeing CGL to make sure there are no more Wildfire type issues (in a strictly bookkeeping/legal sense).

The facts on that case were cut and dry.
CGL didnt pay Wildfire their royalties by date X
Wildfire said stop selling our books, CGL continued anyway. Wildfire got the courts to put in an cease a desist order. CGL continued anyway. Wildfire sued, CGL finally stopped selling books. They go to court, after a bunch of stall tactics including making Wildfire put up CGL lawyer fees in escrow (not uncommon mind you) after all the stall tactics fail the case is settled out of court or basicly CGL paid Wildfire some money and Wildfire dropped the case.

Most of the freelancers have been paid or agreed to trash their contracts (like Mr Trollman) but they were not paid until sales from their books generated enough revenue to pay them. So hurray? Its still dirty pool but they stopped a riot.

[edit] The point is if we are going to point out how Frank hates CGL, we need to equally point out how Loren caused a bad situation and is no worse off.

[edit web facts] For Mark, I'll post as I can find whats left out there. The court documents are public record still, I believe (if I can find them).
Franks version - http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?t=51136
original rumors - http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=30231&st=0
court documents from the forced bankruptcy case - http://ia700309.us.archive.org/27/items/gov.uscourts.wawb.504666/
Whos being sued - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InMediaRes_Productions
 
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After the Awakening, many former battlefields and sites of carnage from Europe's many wars became haunted by ghosts. Even the recent Euro Wars left their mark, as witnessed by the specters lingering in the battlefields of Pustynia near Warsaw-Lodz. But the most haunted and spiritually corrupt areas by far are those where great massacres occurred, particularly former Nazi concentration camps and the Warsaw ghetto.

The city of Oswiecim stands right next to the Auschwitz-Birkenau, the Nazis' largest concentration camp. For over twenty years after the Awakening, the ghosts of this camp's victims drove all life from this region, occasionally haunting nearby areas and even Krakow as well. The Sylvestrines erected a massive spirit barrier (Force 8 ) around the area in 2035, and maintain it to this day along with patrols of watchers.

Within the barrier, thousands of apparitions, specters, and unique ghosts (see pp. 120-2, MitS) are contained, waiting to unleash their pain, misery, and wrath on any metahumans foolish enough to venture within. The camp itself has a Background Count of 5 (petering down to 3 in Oswiecim and 2 or 1 a few kilometers out), and the gas chambers and other buildings razed by the Nazis to hide their atrocities appear as (sometimes materialized) astral constructs (see pp. 100-2, T: AL).

Now this I don't have a problem with...unless there's more to the text than what was presented here. This basically just says that it's there and it's a horrible place. If the Shadowrun world was real, and there were really people who could sense such things, then this seems like a fitting description. It seems honest, and not disrespectful.

But, unlike the text from War!, the above text isn't set up as an adventure hook, nor does it include a related item that can be achieved as some reward for defeating, subverting, or avoiding the spirits.

To me, that makes all the difference.

Pretending it's not there, especially in a game representation of our real world, I agree would be very awkward and unrealistic. So the only course left open is to represent it in a respectful, or at least a brutally honest, manner.

For example, I wouldn't have a problem with something like this: (changes in italics)

WORK BRINGS FREEDOM

Oswiecim was under a spiritual barrier for a number of years. Oswiecim was home to Auschwitz-Birkenau, the most well known of the Nazi party’s concentration camps. During the Holocaust, 1.1 million people died within its walls. This led it to become one of the most haunted places on the planet. Ghosts of all shapes and sizes dwelled within, causing all the residents of Oswiecim to flee in fear of their lives. Due to the sheer magnitude and horror of the spiritual energy and emotions in the area, Auschwitz-Birkenau has become home to a great number of other things, and is almost certain death for anyone sensitive to such things.

The town proper is effectively still a town, albeit a town inhabited by the angry and tortured dead. They don’t take kindly to the living, but aren’t necessarily hostile unless provoked. Though for someone sensitive, merely being within their vicinity or presence is almost always overwhelming, and likely fatal. Many are simply living out echoes of their past existences as harmless villagers. The real problem comes from the concentration camps proper. The three main campuses are surrounded by about fifty smaller camps. Each of the smaller camps is a hotbed of supernatural activity, but nothing compared to the magnitude of the central collective.

In particular, Auschwitz II has the strongest concentration of these presences. It was the source of the vast majority of deaths—it’s what most people think of when referencing Auschwitz. It’s nightmare made flesh, almost a living organism unto itself. The halls audibly scream and cry, the ghosts beg for release so much that most people couldn’t even hear themselves speak. For your average runner, Auschwitz II is suicide. Only the most enterprising groups will survive the trip, and should only be attempted due to great need. Contact can be made and answers sought, but there are no rewards here...only sadness, death, and lessons to be remembered.

(all remaining text deleted)

But, as soon as this is made a part of it:

...For the inclined occult investigator, Auschwitz-Birkenau is a treasure trove. It’s also a remarkably dangerous trap. Earlier this year, an entrepreneur named Tetsuo Shuumatsu hired a cabal of sorcerers, charging them with the removal of the barrier. He’s an arms dealer, one who specializes in the weapons necessary to take down ghosts. With such an infestation of ghosts, only a silly buyer would hesitate to pay top dollar for his wares. His greed opened this treasure trove to the public, allowing those without a sense of self-preservation to have a unique opportunity to drudge for necromantic artifacts.

...Only the most enterprising groups will survive the trip. But such a trip can result in great rewards (see The Fleshfinder, below).

THE FLESHFINDER

Deep within the bowels of Auschwitz II during WWII, Dr. Eduard Wirths conducted and supervised thousands of odd experiments on the human body. He tested mustard gas on innocents. He mutilated twins. He held people in tanks of ice water for hours or until dead. He exposed prisoners to malaria. He forced them to drink seawater. One particular implement from his experiments, a rusted old scalpel, was left in the labs. Over many years, it was energized by the various ghosts passing by it, feeding off their death energies. At this point, it’s taken on a life of its own.

The rusty old scalpel craves death. It only finds itself at home when flush with warm blood. Although this makes it a remarkably effective weapon, anyone holding it is subject to the sounds of its past victims. As a function of this, when the weapon is in hand, the character is considered distracted and suffers a –4 dice pool modifier to all Perception Tests. If she attempts to Observe in Detail as a Simple Action, she only suffers a –2 dice pool modifier.
Reach: 0, Damage: (Str/2+4)P, AP: –2, Availability: N/A (unique item), Market Value: 10,000¥

...then this entry becomes an adventure hook. Even if the form and structure of adventures are different in Shadowrun than from D&D, it's still an adventure hook. I think that an adventure hook is a fairly universal concept from system to system. The text from War! is significantly different in flavor, treatment, and intended purpose, than the text from that older description.

Creating an adventure hook based on the real world suffering of millions of people, for the purpose of entertainment (as opposed to the purpose of promoting awareness of these events, or highlighting the courage of the victims and those that supported them, or simply including and describing it because it exists and can't be ignored)...then for me it exceeds the bounds of good taste.

To each their own, but as for me...I've never bought any Shadowrun material before (though I did own and play the Shadowrun videogame for Sega Genesis back in the 90's:)), but it wasn't outside the realm of possibility that I might someday be interested in doing so. But now, because of this supplement, I most assuredly will not buy a Shadowrun product.

I would however, still play a Shadowrun campaign if invited to...but not if the GM or players included material like the text this thread is concerned with, and/or in a manner intended/implied by that text, or even in a game run with homebrew material of the same flavor. I wouldn't play a game with anyone, in any system or campaign, that included such material or flavor (specifically, such portrayals of real world atrocities). And, I'm fairly certain I would have elicited appalled looks from any of the people I game with or have gamed with, if I had used such material or presented it in a similar way in my own games.
 

...The freelancer who wrote the section is pretty obviously one of the new guys brought in to replace the writers who left. When he posted on the official Shadowrun site because of the controversy his piece was causing it was his very first post. Chances are he had a very brief overview of what exactly Shadowrun was and then was told he was supposed to write something about Poland. Then he read the Poland entry in SoE and ran with it. He probably knew enough to know that Shadowrun is supposed to be 'edgy' and full of 'gray morality' so he took it in that direction.

In keeping with the 'black hat' theme this led to a situation where a plot hook was tossed out suggesting the existence of an amoral individual who wants to either A: profit off the discovery of stuff found in the ruins. or B: Profit off equipping runners with phony ghostbusting gear and sending them into the camp to get chewed up.

I appreciate and accept your assessment of the author. It sounds like a very rational depiction of how this text came about. But, what about the editor(s)? What about the other people he works with that probably proof-read it, or even collaborated with? Shouldn't they have known better? Shouldn't a voice of reason, at some point in the process, seen this as misguided and corrected it before publication?
 


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