Shadows and Improved Natural Attack

[starwed]

So, a greater shadow's attack is 1d8 strength damage. Can Improved Natural Attack alter this damage, taking it to 2d6 strength damage?

The description of Natural Weapons states that: "Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature.". A shadow's touch seems to qualify for that, so it meets the prereq of INA.

Thoughts?

 

[Fieari]

Here's a quick question for you in responce: how much damage does a Collossal size lich do with a touch attack?

 

[moritheil]

If the only important requirement is that they be physically a part of the creature, Succubi and Vampires are salivating with anticipation!

 

[starwed]

That's an easy question to answer, because Lich is a template which specifies how much damage is done. ^_^

A lich without natural weapons has a touch attack that uses negative energy to deal 1d8+5 points of damage to living creatures

(And yes, I understand your point, but that's really a subjective judgement about what makes sense in the game world.)

 

[Cedric]

On page 299 of the Monster Manual is the Category - Special Attacks. This is listed "after" Natural Attacks and includes Ability Damage. Therefore, this is not a natural attack or weapon.

Also, the strength damage attack of a Shadow is a "Supernatural" ability, which at least intuitively would indicate that it's not natural.

 

[moritheil]

Well, by definition something "supernatural" is outside the "natural order." Whether that natural and the term "natural" in "natural attack" are one and the same, I will leave to others to argue.

 

[pawsplay]

Incorporeal Subtype: An incorporeal creature has no physical body.

Natural Weapons: Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature.

 

[pawsplay]

On the other hand, the Dread Wraith appears to have done it.

 

[Fieari]

Wow, you're right. I'd never noticed that before.

That's nasty. But I guess they can take it after all.

Yowch.

I wonder if that means the lich is eligable for INA too...

 

[Cedric]

Wow, you're right. I'd never noticed that before.

That's nasty. But I guess they can take it after all.

Yowch.

I wonder if that means the lich is eligable for INA too...

No, they still can't take it. If you look at Shadow and Greater Shadow, both are size "medium" and the Greater Shadow does 1d8 str dmg, regular Shadow 1d6.

Again, Ability Damage is a "Special Attack" and a Supernatural ability, as such it cannot be augmented by the Improved Natural Attack feat.