Shaman spirits: walk like the animals?

[TerraDave]

Its my understanding that the spirit companion, unless explicitly noted, does not fly, hover, float, featherfall, etc.

But maybe I am wrong?

Also, do they share movement properties with the shaman?

 

[Incenjucar]

As conjurations, I'm pretty sure you can move them in any direction in three dimensions and they'll just BE there. I do wish they'd have some clearer details on how summon-like conjurations work for some corner cases.

 

[mneme]

It's a spirit, so it's pretty justifyable to move it wherever. Moreover, it's pretty clear that a Watchful Spirit shaman is intended to style her spirit as an eagle, and have it "fly", but the Watchful Spirit shaman gains no powers that allow them to do this -- almost as if anyone could.

This, I think, is something that is clear in a LFR or other organized play game, but it's pretty subject to negotiation (as is exactly what a familiar can accomplish beyond their properties and powers) in home games. I suspect most GMs tend to rule that if your spirit is a bear or something, it can't fly, but if it's a bird or imp, it can. Personally, I'd want to be fairer than that -- giving you the option to make the spirit Large but lose the ability for it to fly/hover would work nicely, or alternatively giving you +2 to damage the spirit does on OAs and can receive before it is destroyed.

 

[DracoSuave]

Can you conjure a flaming sphere in the air, and move it around?

If the answer to this is yes, then the same answer applies to spirit companions. They are no different than any other power effect.

 

[Will Doyle]

Actually, the spirit companion is listed as occupying it's square. This overrules this section of the conjuration rules:

Occupies No Squares: The conjuration occupies no squares. The conjuration does not need to be supported by a solid surface, so it can float in the air.

So, you could argue that it can't fly - as flying appears to be a property of occupying no squares?

 

[DracoSuave]

Actually, the spirit companion is listed as occupying it's square. This overrules this section of the conjuration rules:

Occupies No Squares: The conjuration occupies no squares. The conjuration does not need to be supported by a solid surface, so it can float in the air.

So, you could argue that it can't fly - as flying appears to be a property of occupying no squares?

Flying creatures occupy their squares. It's just the square they occupy is above the squares on the ground.

Occupation is irrelevant.

 

[TerraDave]

Ya, the key word just makes things less clear.

 

[Will Doyle]

Flying creatures occupy their squares. It's just the square they occupy is above the squares on the ground.

Occupation is irrelevant.

I'm not so sure. Flying creatures are classified as such because they have a fly speed, or because the use of a power has granted them one.

The only thing that says a conjuration can fly is single line in the conjuration rules listed under "occupies no space". If that line was written as a separate rule then there'd be no confusion (e.g. Floats: The conjuration does not need to be supported by a solid surface, so it can float in the air).

I'll admit it's open to interpretation though.

 

[Ferghis]

I had trouble figuring out the shaman spirit movement as well. Today, I learned they can fly. I guess that's a reasonable interpretation of not-affected-by-the-environment. Here are some other things I discovered about them over the years.

- They get to move even when you turn your move into a minor.
- Their movement is not affected by terrain in any way.
- They are not targeted by area, burst, or blast attacks.
- They are unaffected by auras.
- They are unaffected by conditions of any kind.

 

[DracoSuave]

I'm not so sure. Flying creatures are classified as such because they have a fly speed, or because the use of a power has granted them one.

The only thing that says a conjuration can fly is single line in the conjuration rules listed under "occupies no space". If that line was written as a separate rule then there'd be no confusion (e.g. Floats: The conjuration does not need to be supported by a solid surface, so it can float in the air).

I'll admit it's open to interpretation though.

FLYING is irrelevant. Conjurations do not fly. That's something creatures do. I never claimed conjurations can fly.

They are power effects and nothing more.

So, let's examine the rules hierarchy here.

Can a power effect be placed in the air? Yes.
Does spirit conjuration, or any of its keywords, say that it cannot? No.

Therefore as a power it has every right to be up there in the air.

Does the rule for conjurations say that a moveable conjuration cannot be moved in the air? No.

Therefpre as a moveable conjuration it has every right to move up there in the air.

There exist rules stating explicitly it can be up there, and there is a complete absense of rules stating it cannot be up there.

Rules say it can. No rules say it cannot.

This shouldn't even be an argument. This has nothing to do with how creatures fly, or whether it occupies its space. The only thing that is relevant is that a rule says it can, and no rule says it cannot.

Moreover, as you state, there's a rule stating explicitly that conjurations can float. And spirit companion contains zero words stating it cannot. Zero. Not one.

What does occupation have to do with it? It's not relevant.