Shaman's Spirit Companion Questions

[Caliber]

Conjurations are not creatures, they are effects with the Conjuration keyword. You can't OA a Flaming Sphere, nor a Mage Hand. The -exact- same logic applies here. Only creatures can trigger OAs.

Powers with the Summoning keyword DO bring forth creatures, and that's where the confusion lies. Spirit Companions do NOT have the Summoning keyword. Really. Read the power.

I don't have my books with me, so can you confirm this? Are OAs really restricted to creatures? Or do Flaming Spheres/Mage Hands not draw OAs not because they are conjurations, but because they simply can't be targeted by attacks in the first place (again, because they're conjurations)?

Unless OAs spell out a "must be a creature" stipulation, I would think spirit companions, being targetable, would be vulnerable to OAs. However, as I'm thinking of rolling a Shaman very soon (come on CB, update!) I can't say I'm not open to being convinced otherwise!

 

[DracoSuave]

OAs are triggered by enemies. While the basic attack could target a Spirit Companion, the spirit companion never triggers the OA to begin with... it's never an enemy, because it is not a creature, and only creatures can be enemies. As well, an OA is not a power, and therefore has no attack type, and is therefore, not a melee or ranged power.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

OAs are triggered by enemies. While the basic attack could target a Spirit Companion, the spirit companion never triggers the OA to begin with... it's never an enemy, because it is not a creature, and only creatures can be enemies. As well, an OA is not a power, and therefore has no attack type, and is therefore, not a melee or ranged power.

The first part I can agree with, but not the second part. An Opportunity Attack allows you to make a Melee Basic Attack which is a power and has the melee keyword. To say otherwise is like saying that a Standard Action isn't a power and doesn't have a melee or ranged keyword, and therefore an attack made with a Standard Action doesn't affect the Spirit. The word "Opportunity Attack" or "Opportunity Action" is just a description of the action type, not the attack itself.

 

[Akaiku]

If you the character are flanking an enemy, spirit attacks get combat advantage, correct? Also, the shifter ability to do +2 damage when you are bloodied, plus various other abilities that explicitly give you the character increased accuracy or damage work through your spirit as well? Also, your spirit attacking a foe that you do not have even line of sight to reveals you from hiding from said foe, correct?

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

If you the character are flanking an enemy, spirit attacks get combat advantage, correct? Also, the shifter ability to do +2 damage when you are bloodied, plus various other abilities that explicitly give you the character increased accuracy or damage work through your spirit as well? Also, your spirit attacking a foe that you do not have even line of sight to reveals you from hiding from said foe, correct?

All decent questions. In order to be considered flanking you must meet the requirements on PHB1 285. The key one is "Opposite Sides". To be considered flanking and get CA the ATTACKER must have an ally on the opposite side of the defender. Just because the shaman and some other character meet that requirement does not make it met for the spirit companion (or anyone else). Since spirit companions CANNOT flank, they cannot ever benefit from CA due to flanking, unless the spirit happens to be under the effect of a power which grants it flanking capability.

The spirit companion has the same defenses as your character, but it has only whatever attack capabilities you're powers give it. The attack power's description will thus answer this question and there is no general answer.

I think the question of becoming not hidden is an ambiguous case. It hinges on the question of whether or not you or the companion would be considered the originator of the attack. This is a raging debate WRT all types of conjurations, as well as sustained zones. One could also ask the same question about provoking OAs. If the shaman casts a ranged attack originating at the spirit, does he take OAs? Nobody really knows (well, I don't). FWIW I would rule you remain hidden.

 

[DracoSuave]

The point of origin for ranged powers is the shaman, even if its 'from the spirit.' You only determine line of effect from the spirit, everything else is determined from the shaman. (Read Conjurations, PHBII)


A lot of these questions are answered in the section on Conjurations. Seriously.

99% of the confusion comes from thinking that conjurations are creatures. They are not. They are spell effects. Nothing in the Call Spirit Companion says it's a creature. Nothing in the conjuration keyword says it's a creature.

Ergo, it is not a creature. It is not an ally. It is not an enemy. It is an -effect-. It -can- be targeted by certain attacks, but that doesn't mean that it -triggers- abilities. Interactions that are not strictly damage are -not- allowed it without specific exceptions.

Think of it this way. All the attacks the spirit 'does' are 'Ranged spirit 1'. That would mean that every 'melee' attack the spirit 'does', being defined as ranged attacks, would trigger immediate OAs from every enemy adjacent to it when it attacks.

However, this is not the case. The spirit does not actually make these attacks. It is merely the center point for range calculation. Concealment doesn't matter to the spirit, only to -you-, the source of the power. -You- are the only actual creature here. The spirit is merely a conjuration that happens to interact with certain powers you use. It should not be confused with a beast companion which IS a creature.

 

[Kinneus]

Trust me, the new Conjuration rules was the first place I turned, but I still found them wanting. This thread, for instance, claims that the Spirit Companion is subject to opportunity attacks: [Shaman] Spirit Companion Problems Master List - Wizards Community

So it's not really as cut and dry as "read the new Conjuration rules, all will be answered". There's nothing mentioned there about opportunity attacks one way or the other.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yep, it is by NO means settled that a conjuration cannot be an 'enemy'. It is by no means settled WHY a conjuration cannot be OAed. There are 2 possible reasons, the 'it is not subject to attack' argument, and the 'it is not a creature and thus not an enemy' argument. For the vast bulk of conjurations it is a non-issue since 'not subject to attack' certainly precludes OA. It happens that for spirit companions this is not so, and thus it DOES become a pertinent consideration.

If the reason a conjuration cannot suffer OA is simply because it is invulnerable to attack, then spirit companions CAN suffer an OA. We also know that spirit companions are certainly not creatures, but the second argument contains the hidden assumption that not creature = not enemy. This is not an established fact either. It is especially not well established in the case of spirit companions, which certainly act in many respects like allies/enemies.

Thus I (and apparently even WotC) have not been able to come to a certain conclusion on whether or not a spirit companion can trigger an OA.

Even if WotC decides a spirit companion CAN trigger an OA there are a number of open questions beyond that, some of which are also essentially the same questions which are open WRT other conjurations that can be the origin of attacks (hand spells) and sustainable zones that make to-hit roles, which in many respects fall into a similar category.

Personally I'm just going to reserve judgment on spirit companion until I've had a chance to DM some adventures with a shaman in the party and see what works out best.

 

[Obryn]

Effectively, a spirit companion can travel up to 41 squares if the shaman spends a minor + a move action, so I'm not all too concerned about OA's.

I think the reason they're not OA-able is simply because there's nothing that says they are. You generally can't attack a Conjuration, and for those you can, the description is pretty specific on how you can. Basically, the spell description lays out everything you can possibly do to a conjuration, and if it's not there, you can't do it.

What perplexes me is their answer that the Companion is affected by Area and Close attacks. That seems incorrect to me, given how specific the power description is. So I'll just ignore that part, until I see errata that specifically changes the description.

-O

 

[Kinneus]

I think the reason they're not OA-able is simply because there's nothing that says they are.

Customer Service on that thread I linked to says they are... but Customer Service answers often feel like they're throwing darts at a corkboard labeled "yes/no".

My full questions
Hello! I am writing because I'm confused about a few things related to the Shaman:

1) There are two new feats in the PHB2, Nimble Spirit (page 193) and Spirit Talker (page 196), both of which regulate the kind of action needed to "use" the Call Spirit Companion class feature (page 120). But from the wording it's not clear to me if the feats mean only to specify the action required to invoke the power (conjuring the spirit, normally a minor action), or also the action required to dismiss the spirit (also a minor action, described within the power).For example, if I were a shaman who took the Nimble Spirit feat, could I summon my spirit companion as a free action and dismiss it as a minor action? Or would I both summon and dismiss it using free actions?

2) The shaman's spirit companion is a conjuration, and I have no idea whether its movement can provoke opportunity attacks. Can you tell me?

3) Also regarding conjurations in general (PHB page 59), I see that conjurations share the defenses of the person who summoned them. What about defense conditionally modified by feats? For example, if I summoned a conjuration that could provoke opportunity attacks, and if I had the Defensive Mobility feat (PHB page 194), would my conjuration gain +2 to AC against opportunity attacks that it triggered by moving?

Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide!





CustServ's full answers
Thank you for writing.

1. For Nimble Spirit you may only call spirit companion as a free action. Dismissing is still a minor action.

2. Yes, it will provoke Opportunity Attacks.

3. Your conjuration would gain the benefit as well.

Good Gaming!

Paul
Online Response Crew
Wizards of the Coast