sharing Alter Self with a familiar

[Bad Paper]

Okay. If he uses Alter Self to turn into an orc, and shares the Alter Self spell with his familiar, the familiar can turn into a Magical Beast within one size category and with 5 HD or less (as long as it remains within 5 feet of its master). For example, a shocker lizard, darkmantle, or stirge.

If he uses Polymorph to turn into an orc, and shares the Polymorph spell with his familiar, the familiar can turn into an aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin, with 15 HD or less (limited by his caster level and HD), that isn't incorporeal, gaseous, or smaller than Fine. Whether it can be more than one size category larger than the familiar is debated. For example, a pixie, derro, or choker.

Thank you.

When I began this thread, I was not at all expecting this outcome. I will consider this with my DM (for my wizard. In the other campaign (that I run), the wizard seems to resent the presence of his familiar). Honestly, I feel that Hyp's solution may be more powerful than the designers intended, and that it goes against the flavor of the whole familiar shtick. But if this seems to be the general agreement, then wooHOO! Even staying within 5', there's loads of life to be breathed back into shapechanging wizards. And those damnable sorcerers.

 

[seans23]

When I began this thread, I was not at all expecting this outcome. I will consider this with my DM (for my wizard. In the other campaign (that I run), the wizard seems to resent the presence of his familiar). Honestly, I feel that Hyp's solution may be more powerful than the designers intended, and that it goes against the flavor of the whole familiar shtick. But if this seems to be the general agreement, then wooHOO! Even staying within 5', there's loads of life to be breathed back into shapechanging wizards. And those damnable sorcerers.

I think when you cast alter self, your familiar should get one free wish.

 

[Bad Paper]

I think when you cast alter self, your familiar should get one free wish.

...which is amusing, considering the current specific circumstances of my wizard and his familiar. It looks like Folsor is going to get that Explorateur after all!

 

[Wrathamon]

If I was a dwarf and drank a potion of Alter self, and turned myself into a troglodyte... what would I gain and what would I lose?

If I was human, would I lose anything?

 

[glass]

If I was a dwarf and drank a potion of Alter self, and turned myself into a troglodyte... what would I gain and what would I lose? If I was human, would I lose anything?

You would gain the troglodyte's claw attacks, natural armour, and multi-attack bonus feat. You would lose any extraordinary qualities of being a dwarf (darkvision, etc).

As a human, you lose nothing (well it could be argued that you lose your human bonus feat, but since it is not a specific feat denoted with a sperscript B, I wouldn't ).


glass.

 

[the_insomniac]

1. i dont giv a "+2 to the master's fort save"'s a ss about thread necro complaints

2. hd limit is determined by caster level

3. share spells only applies to spells u cast

 

[Greenfield]

Note the word "Share". It doesn't say you can target the Familiar with a spell, it says you can share it, meaning that you both get it.

Yep, but I also think that you can only cast a personal spell on either yourself or the familiar, not both at once.

Since it's the same spell, which also affects the familiar, I would say, that you can only choose the 'variables' once for the spell (just as if it had multiple targets). You choose the creature to Polymorph into (Alter Self cannot be cast on both at once, because it is personal) and both, you and the familiar, turn into a creature of that kind.

Bye
Thanee

 

[the_insomniac]

im just pointing out that since the familiar has no caster level, it cant determine the max hd of the form it takes (even though the limit is 5, a 4th level wizard can only take the form of something with 4 or less hd). so, the form taken must b determined by the wizard's stats. so if a dwarf casts alter self to turn into a gnome, the familiar could turn into a gnome too (gnome is within one size category of both a dwarf and a rat). but since share spells makes an exception for creature type, and not an exception for creature size, if a gnome used alter self to become a varag, it would hav no effect on the rat. and there cant be a separate effect for the rat because the rat has no caster level to base the effect on. aside from that, i was just pointing out that if someone used a wand or potion, they wouldnt actually b casting the spell, and therefore isn't covered by share spells, and has no effect on the familiar

 

[Gorgon Zee]

Permanently enlarge your familiar to medium sized and avoid all hassle.
Then you can polymorph both yourself and your familiar into 11 headed hydras and get 22 attacks a round to your hearts content.

 

[Greenfield]

Permanently enlarge your familiar to medium sized and avoid all hassle.
Then you can polymorph both yourself and your familiar into 11 headed hydras and get 22 attacks a round to your hearts content.

There is an Enlarge Person spell that won't work on a Familiar, since it isn't a "person". There is the Wizard's option of "Share a spell with Familiar" that ends as soon as the Familiar is more than 5 feet from the caster. There is "Cast a spell with target of 'you' on a Familiar", which won't work for Enlarge Person because the target isn't limited to "you". And there's Enlarge Animal (Druidic) that wont work on a Familiar because it's a Magical Beast, not an "animal".

So permanently enlarging your Familiar may be problematic.

On the other hand, Polymorph will work on a tiny Familiar just fine, so you can both be 11 headed Hydra to your heart's content.

Neither of you will gain a breath weapon (see Polymorph to verify the limits on abilities gained. You also won't be getting 11 attacks per round either. Polymorph says it "works like Alter Self", with exceptions, and ...

A body with extra limbs does not allow you to make more attacks (or more advantageous two weapon attacks) than normal.

So, other than being impossible at almost every stage, and not giving you what you want, that's one heck of a plan, Ray, and I'm proud to be a part of it.