Shelzar: City of Sin; Questions, Answers and stuff in between

[Iron_Chef]

Saw it. Didn't buy it. No pull out poster map. Not enough information on businesses like that provided in Streets of Silver (quick stat block of owner, quality, amount of wealth/merchandise gp value on hand, etc). It just doesn't cut it for me and seems hard to separate from its Scarred Lands setting. Also, its pretty middle eastern seeming---good for campaigns set in those lands but bad for those set elsewhere because you have to change too much (especially the names). It seems like it was inspired by Conan's city of Shaduzar the Wicked and Thieves' World Sanctuary (the Maze) more than anything else, so fans of those might find more use for it in their campaigns. I thought Troll Lord's Bergholdt was much better, as was Freeport, Bluffside and Streets of Silver.

Another complaint: The eroticist PrC should have been included.

Overall, it was much tamer than Nightfall's posts led me to believe. Buildings in the city should have been mapped, at least give us a sample brothel, LOL.

The Grey Citadel, an adventure set in an evil city---also out today from SSS---is another disappointment to me. YMMV.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

I find Shelzar book interesting.

Maybe certain arabic overtones feel a bit too much earth-custom rip-off, I tend to dislike. Especially people wearing turbans, but that's just me.

Severe law against commanding undead, is a bit weird considering other things said in the book. Raising undead is another matter, of course.

Also, I wonder why certain prestige class of Rie was not put into this book, especially since publishing of Players Guide to Wizards, Bards and Sorcerers has been pushed to some far future.

Mostly book is pretty tame, saying little, leaving much to imagination.

 

[Nightfall]

Saw it. Didn't buy it. No pull out poster map.

And exactly how many pull maps does one product need? I'm sorry that you didn't like it, but I don't see how a pull out map helps or hinders anyone enjoyment. I thought the cartography in the book was a cut above the usual S&SS stuff.

Not enough information on businesses like that provided in Streets of Silver (quick stat block of owner, quality, amount of wealth/merchandise gp value on hand, etc). It just doesn't cut it for me and seems hard to separate from its Scarred Lands setting.

Seems to me you are comparing it against another company that, if I recall, not a lot of people bought from. Sure I'll grant it, Shelzar might not fit everyone tastes, and certainly if you come in expecting this to be a definitive guide to the city, with lots of goodies, you might be dissappointed. But I felt it was handled quite well AND it can fit into other people's campaigns pretty well, even with some more than slight modifications.

Also, its pretty middle eastern seeming---good for campaigns set in those lands but bad for those set elsewhere because you have to change too much (especially the names). It seems like it was inspired by Conan's city of Shaduzar the Wicked and Thieves' World Sanctuary (the Maze) more than anything else, so fans of those might find more use for it in their campaigns. I thought Troll Lord's Bergholdt was much better, as was Freeport, Bluffside and Streets of Silver.

I don't know about the Streets one, but yes Bluffside and Freeport WERE/ARE among the best. However I like Shelzar primarily because it's decedant and pretty rife with many layers of things.

Another complaint: The eroticist PrC should have been included.

I think the reason it wasn't was because they had thought (at the time) the Player's Guide to Wizards, Bards and Sorcerers would be out.

Overall, it was much tamer than Nightfall's posts led me to believe. Buildings in the city should have been mapped, at least give us a sample brothel, LOL.

Originally posted by Iron_Chef

Dunno about that but I think if you looked at page 62 you might disagree with that.

The Grey Citadel, an adventure set in an evil city---also out today from SSS---is another disappointment to me. YMMV.

 

[Nightfall]

I find Shelzar book interesting.

Maybe certain arabic overtones feel a bit too much earth-custom rip-off, I tend to dislike. Especially people wearing turbans, but that's just me.

Severe law against commanding undead, is a bit weird considering other things said in the book. Raising undead is another matter, of course.

Also, I wonder why certain prestige class of Rie was not put into this book, especially since publishing of Players Guide to Wizards, Bards and Sorcerers has been pushed to some far future.

Mostly book is pretty tame, saying little, leaving much to imagination.

Um page 62 didn't seem that tame to me...And besides, why shouldn't the DM have to work on some stuff?

As for why, I assume the reason was primiary because at the time, the people writing it assumed it WAS going to be out on time and well before Shelzar was being done.

 

[Iron_Chef]

No pull out map = no purchase from me for city books.

Maybe it's just me, but I must have a nice map I can pull out and look at before, during and after play. It makes it much easier to figure out the general layout of the city, how to get from point A to point B, defensible positions if it is attacked/beseiged, real estate values, etc. It's just way more convenient for the DM and the players, especially if they are to spend any amount of time in it, let alone live there.

A couple of thoughts to improve the product's functionality: The eroticist should be made a free download since the Player's Guide is not going to be ready for some time. Web enhanced products are always better, so why not make a download of the city map too?

 

[Nightfall]

I would like to point out not many city books have pull out maps. I do understand your point, but there are production costs to consider. Such costs affect the price of the book. This isn't to say I don't agree there should be more but that's something to consider.

Eroticist, maybe but I'm sure if you wait until august you might find a chance to get it. I do agree though having a web copy of the map isn't a bad thing.

 

[Iron_Chef]

Troll Lord's excellent Bergholdt: By Shadow of Night city book is only $14.95 and includes a nice pull out (B&W) map. maybe its page count is less (don't have both on hand to compare). I think the nicest d20 city map I've seen so far in terms of overall "sexiness" and functionality so far is Kenzer's Geanavue.

If production cost is an issue, I'd rather pay more to get a functional glossy color pull out map than not have one, but I understand not everyone feels the same. A compromise that makes everybody happy (or at least happier) is to provide such a map in B&W and Color versions as free downloads and statew this in the product. That adds nothing to your production cost and makes your product "web enhanced." Just a thought, anyway.

 

[Nightfall]

Right and thus it was lowering the page count to get a full color put out map...or lose that and see what plot hooks you can develop for people to enjoy.

As for web enhancements, sure it's nice but two things must spring to mind. 1. Not everyone has internet access. (Still something that only a few can have.) 2. Not all the people have time to try to put such things online, especially when they are still working on stuff for the next 6 months so that the schedule for 2003 can be setup.

Chef, mind sending me an email. Got a question I wanted to ask you privately. Just use my email link.

 

[Sulimo]

Saw it. Didn't buy it. No pull out poster map. Not enough information on businesses like that provided in Streets of Silver (quick stat block of owner, quality, amount of wealth/merchandise gp value on hand, etc).

Don't suppose you could post a review/overview of Streets of Silver...I've been keen to see this fr quite some time.

 

[Nightfall]

*smirks* Traitor! *is kidding*