Shield Bash?

[Alpha Polaris]

No no no!

Improved Shield Bash
TWF (all three feats)
Weapon Focus, Spec, Greater Focus, Greater Spec: Shield (I'm playing in a game that uses weapon groups, so there's no issue between the different shields)

One hand, heavy shield, spiked. Other hand, light shield, spiked. Magic them up.

You are...the Turtle!!

Oh my god ! Take a heavy shiel in each hand, and you start looking like a Tie-Fighter !

 

[sledged]

One hand, heavy shield, spiked. Other hand, light shield, spiked.

If only shield bonues stacked with each other...

 

[Eltern]

There's a lot of fun you can have with shields, but just from a rules perspective it's never really worth it. My dual shield character had a large amounts of feats he could take (human, straight up fighter). Went something like this:

1 Imp. Shield Bash
1 Wep Focus: Shield Bash
1 TWF
2 Homebrew feat: +1 to AC per shield
3 Shieldmate (+1 to AC of adjacent allies)
4 Wep. Spec: Shield Bash
6 Imp TWF
6 Improved Shieldmate (+2 to AC of adjacent allies)
8 Greater Wep Focus: Shield Bash
9 Shield Charge (barely ever used it, because it only works on turn 1, really)
10 Imp. Critical: Shield bash
12 Greater TWF
12 Greater Wep Spec: Shield Bash

Had to do all that just to keep being all shieldy viable. Still didn't do tons of damage, ever. Bonus: We got captured, stripped of our belongings, and stuck in jail. We bust out, and while my pals are trying to use stools as weapons I just break a door in half and tie the pieces to my arms. Some penalties, of course, but it was neat

 

[Kabol]

the shield is actualy a very cheep offhand weapon the for only +1 enhancement (bashing) becomes insanely huge dmg dealer. a Light,spiked, bashing shield deals 1d8 as off-hand weapon that is considered a light weapon. Heavy shield dealing 2d6, theres no other weapon in the game that can be weilded off hand that deals that much dmg.

 

[Tatsukun]

I'm not sure I'd allow spiked and bashing to stack. Is there some reference for / against this?

As for 2D6 being the best, what about +1 flaming (or whatever) armor spikes? They would do 1D6 + 1D6 fire (or whatever element you want) and are light weapons (lessoning the penalties for TWF by 2).

-T

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm not sure I'd allow spiked and bashing to stack. Is there some reference for / against this?

As written, it works just fine.

The Sage ruled against it, but his reasoning was faulty - he was considering spikes to be a separate weapon, when in fact the spikes modify the shield.

-Hyp.

 

[sledged]

the shield is actualy a very cheep offhand weapon the for only +1 enhancement (bashing) becomes insanely huge dmg dealer. a Light,spiked, bashing shield deals 1d8 as off-hand weapon that is considered a light weapon. Heavy shield dealing 2d6, theres no other weapon in the game that can be weilded off hand that deals that much dmg.

Does a shield bash have to be an off hand attack? Could my heavy shield be my primary weapon and my short sword my off hand weapon? Could I get the benefit of x1.5 str bonus for using a heavy shield with two hands?

As for 2D6 being the best, what about +1 flaming (or whatever) armor spikes? They would do 1D6 + 1D6 fire (or whatever element you want) and are light weapons (lessoning the penalties for TWF by 2).

Bashing is still better, because (a) the 1d6 fire damage is subject to fire reduction and immunity, and (b) the bashing damage is subject to multiplying due to critical hits. Of course there's nothing stopping you from having both.

The Sage ruled against it, but his reasoning was faulty - he was considering spikes to be a separate weapon, when in fact the spikes modify the shield.

If you consider the spikes to be a seperate weapon, you can have +10 worth of abilities on the shield and +10 worth of abilities on the spikes.

If you consider the spikes to be an enhancement to the shield you can only have a total of +10 worth of abilities.

With spikes being an enhancement the only argument I see for why bashing wouldn't stack with spikes, is that the bashing quality implies blugeoning damage. Even then one could always make up a weapon quality for all weapons that increases the base damage of a weapon, assuming such a quality doesn't already exist.

 

[Bauglir]

Shield Bash Attacks: You can bash an opponent with a heavy shield, using it as an off-hand weapon. See Table: Weapons for the damage dealt by a shield bash. Used this way, a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon. If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its AC bonus until your next action (usually until the next round). An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right.

Interestingly, the RAW seem to specify that the shield must be used as an offhand weapon, which would get in the way of any 2-shield fighting styles.

 

[Darklone]

KPG has Shield Specialisation and Guardian. Not as good as shieldmate... but nice in other ways.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you consider the spikes to be a seperate weapon, you can have +10 worth of abilities on the shield and +10 worth of abilities on the spikes.

If you consider the spikes to be an enhancement to the shield you can only have a total of +10 worth of abilities.

Even without spikes, you can take a masterwork shield built as a masterwork weapon, and give it +10 in shield abilities (the limit for a shield) and also craft it as a magic weapon in its own right, with +10 in weapon abilities (the limit for a weapon).

The two +10 limits are independent of each other. The shield bonuses can't 'see' the weapon bonuses.

Adding a +1 shield ability to a +4 shield is cheaper than adding a +1 shield ability to a +5 shield. The amount of shield bonus-equivalents inflate the price of the ability.

But adding a +1 weapon bonus to a +4 shield is exactly the same price as adding a +1 weapon bonus to a +5 shield. The amount of shield bonus is irrelevant, since you're not further enhancing it as a shield.

If we add spikes to the shield, we now have a spiked shield. We can add +10 in shield bonuses and abilities to the spiked shield, and we can add +10 in weapon bonuses and abilities to the spiked shield. The spikes are no longer a separate entity.

-Hyp.