Shield bashing.

[Lord Pendragon]

Consider a 10th-level fighter, wielding a longsword and large steel shield. His attack bonus is +10/+5.

1. If the fighter uses a full attack action to make two shield bashes, what is his attack bonus with each? Does he take a penalty for wielding a weapon in his off-hand? Does he take a penalty for two-weapon fighting?

2. If the fighter uses a full attack action to make one attack with his longsword and one shield bash, what is his attack bonus with each? Does he take a penalty for wielding a weapon in his off-hand? Does he take a penalty for two-weapon fighting?

3. Let's say the fighter has the Improved Shield Bash feat. Each shield bash counts as a bull rush but only moves the opponent a maximum of 5' if successful. In what situations would this be useful? Usually, the foe should be able to move 5' the next round and still attack. Also, does moving 5' in this way trigger AoOs if it's through an ally's threatened area, or is this movement protected from AoOs because--though involuntary--it's still only 5'?

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Tidus4444]

I'm pretty sure using a bashing shield to attack with another weapon is consdiered TWF, thus all TWF penalites apply. Personally, I love my Ranger who dual wields 2 bashing large shields.

 

[thalmin]

I'm pretty sure using a bashing shield to attack with another weapon is consdiered TWF, thus all TWF penalites apply. Personally, I love my Ranger who dual wields 2 bashing large shields.

Wouldn't they be called cymbals?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I'm pretty sure using a bashing shield to attack with another weapon is consdiered TWF, thus all TWF penalites apply.

In all three circumstances I mentioned? In circumstance 1, the longsword is never used. I'd think that only off-hand penalties (-2 I believe) would apply? How about the AoO questions brought up in circumstance 3?

 

[Destil]

1) He suffers off hand penelties unless he either has ambidextarity or is using the shield in his 'on' hand (-4 to hit).
So either +10/+5 or +6/+1

2) He suffers penelties for both using an off hand weapon and two weapon fighting. However, since he is using a second weapon he'd also get the extra attack.
So +6(sword)/+2(shield)/-1(sword) if he uses the shield as his off-hand weapon(better with the feats, -6/-8 for two-weapon with no feats and a light off-hand weapon). -2 Worse if he uses the sword as his off hand weapon, since it's not a light weapon (-8/-10).

3) Humm... hard call. I think I'd allow AoOs myself, since normaly a bull rush does. Though I don't allow Improved Shield Bash in my campaign so the point is moot for me, at least.
As far as usefulness, moving your opponent wherever you want if very useful in the right situations. Change their thretened area, push them off a cliff, into water, fire et cetera. If you take a 5' step between attacks you could move them 10'. You could also use this to set yourself up for a cleave...

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Thanks for the clarifications, Destil. Another question: why don't you allow Improved Shield Bash in your campaign? Have you had problems with it? Are there issues concerning the feat?


Hmmm. I had thought about having my paladin go the Improved Shield Bash/Divine Shield path, but now I'm not sure. He won't have enough feats to pick up Amb/TWF, and without them the effectiveness seems dubious. Still, moving opponents does have tactical applications...

 

[Destil]

Thanks for the clarifications, Destil. Another question: why don't you allow Improved Shield Bash in your campaign? Have you had problems with it? Are there issues concerning the feat?


Hmmm. I had thought about having my paladin go the Improved Shield Bash/Divine Shield path, but now I'm not sure. He won't have enough feats to pick up Amb/TWF, and without them the effectiveness seems dubious. Still, moving opponents does have tactical applications...

I don't like the concept of improved shield bash, as I think it's a bit limited. I'd be happy to just let a player take a feat called 'Knockback' that does the same thing with any bludgeoning weapon and only deals 1/2 damage.

I also dislike divine shield, I'd prefer shield feats to be more defensive in nature. Taking this out keeps someone from taking that (since I'd just let them use divine might with a shield bash, anyway).

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hmmm. I had thought about having my paladin go the Improved Shield Bash/Divine Shield path, but now I'm not sure. He won't have enough feats to pick up Amb/TWF, and without them the effectiveness seems dubious.

If you can get your Charisma bonus up into the double digits, it's worth it Divine Might plus Divine Shield makes for serious bonuses...

And if your cohort has Improved Shield Bash as well, you can both provide AoOs for each other...

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

If you can get your Charisma bonus up into the double digits, it's worth it Divine Might plus Divine Shield makes for serious bonuses...

Heh. I believe it. With that high a CHA bonus, the pluses to hit provided by Divine Shield would cancel out much of the penalties of TWF.

Sadly, my paladin only has a +5 Cha bonus. Even with his cohort's extended Eagle's Splendor, at best he'd have a +7 Cha bonus, and there's little chance of any other Cha-enhancing items in the campaign.

*sigh* I'll just have to be content with Divine Might and possibly Divine Sacrifice.

 

[reapersaurus]

Divine Shield with a +7 bonus is VERY worth it.

In fact, probably overpowering in most campaigns, when combined with Divine Might.
Shield Charge just makes it too easy for the DM to freak out and deny the use of it.