D&D 5E Shield Mastery Feat

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Examples from my table:
Player: I Ready an Action. If the goblin steps between my PC and the cliff, I Shove the goblin off the cliff.
DM: Nice.

And yours:
Player: I Ready an Action. If the goblin steps between my PC and the cliff, I Shove the goblin off the cliff.
DM: NOPERS! My interpretation of RAW indicates that you can't make a shove as a Reaction.
Player: Really? Can you cite the passage?
etc...

Again, the specific ruling from post #201 states that since your "Ready" an action, you can Shove or Grapple as part of a Readied action. So in your example since your readied the action to shove, you can as a reaction. In your example the DM is only wrong because he fails to realize you readied your action and your specific trigger is the goblin stepping between the PC and the cliff.

 

[Sean Culligan]

I am following you, I just don't agree with you, and neither do the RAW.

Swinging a sword is a melee attack. An Attack action grants you a melee or ranged attack.
Shoving is a "special" melee attack (not a normal one). An Attack action allows you to Shove as a "special" melee attack.
Opportunity attack grants you a melee attack, not a "special" melee attack.
The "special" is specific, not general. And specific rules trump general.

That is why Crawford ruled you cannot make a Shove as part of an OA. See post #201 for the official ruling text.

Shove and grapples fall under the "Melee Attack" main heading. That makes them both melee attacks AND special melee attacks as per their definitions. The Opportunity attack rule covers "melee attacks" which they still fall under, "special" is not mentioned. You still haven't proven what "special" means and how that relates to opportunity attacks. I can explain what makes them special just by looking at the rule... Oh.. they use strength checks...

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Again, the specific ruling from post #201 states that since your "Ready" an action, you can Shove or Grapple as part of a Readied action. So in your example since your readied the action to shove, you can as a reaction. In your example the DM is only wrong because he fails to realize you readied your action and your specific trigger is the goblin stepping between the PC and the cliff.

You literally just said "But a Shove cannot, RAW, be used as a Reaction." up above now you are saying that you can Ready a Shove and... use it as a Reaction! So which is it?

You know what, don't bother answering. I have readied the Disengage action. Happy gaming to you.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Shove and grapples fall under the "Melee Attack" main heading. That makes them both melee attacks AND special melee attacks as per their definitions. The Opportunity attack rule covers "melee attacks" which they still fall under, "special" is not mentioned. You still haven't proven what "special" means and how that relates to opportunity attacks. I can explain what makes them special just by looking at the rule... Oh.. they use strength checks...

You literally just said "But a Shove cannot, RAW, be used as a Reaction." up above now you are saying that you can Ready a Shove and... use it as a Reaction! So which is it?

You know what, don't bother answering. I have readied the Disengage action. Happy gaming to you.

By taking a Readied action, you are making a normal Action into a Reaction under a specified trigger and ONLY that defined trigger. Making it a Readied action is an instance of a specific ruling, and as I have pointed out repeatedly, specific trumps general.

Obviously neither of you are taking the time to read Crawrford's official ruling which I quoted in my earlier post, #201. If you aren't willing to acknowledge the official ruling on the RAW, I can't help you. House-rule it however you like, but you are house-ruling it.

Maybe you can't find post #201, so here it is again by Crawford:

Can an opportunity attack be used to make a grapple or a shove?
Grappling and shoving are special melee attacks that require the Attack action (PH, 195). An opportunity attack is a special reaction. Take the Ready action if you want to attempt a grapple or a shove as a reaction.

Maybe that is finally clear enough??? Happy gaming to you both!

 

[Sean Culligan]

Obviously neither of you are taking the time to read Crawrford's official ruling which I quoted in my earlier post, #201. If you aren't willing to acknowledge the official ruling on the RAW, I can't help you. House-rule it however you like, but you are house-ruling it.

Maybe you can't find post #201, so here it is again by Crawford:

Can an opportunity attack be used to make a grapple or a shove?
Grappling and shoving are special melee attacks that require the Attack action (PH, 195). An opportunity attack is a special reaction. Take the Ready action if you want to attempt a grapple or a shove as a reaction.

Maybe that is finally clear enough??? Happy gaming to you both!

You can't win an argument with an appeal to authority. I disagree with that ruling.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

You can't win an argument with an appeal to authority. I disagree with that ruling.

Cool, then you house-rule it. No problem with that since as I have said before I have numerous house-rules myself for my game and often disagree with the RAW. That is the official ruling, however.

 

[Sean Culligan]

Can an opportunity attack be used to make a grapple or a shove?
Grappling and shoving are special melee attacks that require the Attack action" (PH, 195). An opportunity attack is a special reaction. Take the Ready action if you want to attempt a grapple or a shove as a reaction.

Good grief, here I go again...
Crawford doesn't answer "no" to the question. He does however state another instance where it can be used.
But look what he inserted here... "Grappling and shoving are special melee attacks" and then "An opportunity attack is a special reaction"... Coincidence?

The reason I disagree is that he states on PH 195 that grappling and shoving require the attack action. The word "require" is not on page 195.
He later goes on to say it can still be used as a reaction if used as a readied action. A readied action is still not part of a player's attack action when executed as a reaction so it should not be allowed either if you follow the same logic. (illogic) But then again, he still didn't say "no"...

 

[5ekyu]

Yes, granted you can only make one sword swing with an opportunity attack, even if you have the Extra Attack feature. No one is arguing that you can use Extra Attack on the OA.

Ok, I think we all can agree that sword swings and shoves both use the Attack Action, both are melee attacks, and both are able to be used as a Reaction (as in Ready).

With an Attack of Opportunity, you make one melee attack as a Reaction. Why can't that one melee attack be a shove? You seem to argue: because you must take the Attack Action to make a shove, a Shove can ONLY happen on your turn and therefore not as a Reaction. You can see why I disagree. To parse Attack of Opportunity out of Reaction just to eliminate Shove, but allow a sword swing, as a viable option doesn't make sense to me.

There are things that can be reactiins and things that cannot. They are often managed by defining the type of action it takes.

This is one.

Its a rule you as GM can change just fine.

So, there it is.

I know GMs who allowed attack cantrips for their wife as AO reactions because that equally "made sense" to them as allowing shoves does to you.

Another allowed certain wands and other items. Many allow potiins as bonus actions. Some allow the thief bonus action use item to do magic items too.

Its all good.

But the RAW is what it is, nothing fancy.

 

[5ekyu]

Good grief, here I go again...
Crawford doesn't answer "no" to the question. He does however state another instance where it can be used.
But look what he inserted here... "Grappling and shoving are special melee attacks" and then "An opportunity attack is a special reaction"... Coincidence?

The reason I disagree is that he states on PH 195 that grappling and shoving require the attack action. The word "require" is not on page 195.
He later goes on to say it can still be used as a reaction if used as a readied action. A readied action is still not part of a player's attack action so it should not be allowed either if you follow the same logic. (illogic) But then again, he still didn't say "no"...

He did not say no explicitly but did say they require the Attack action, which an AO does not have.

As others keep saying, you can do what you want in your games - but this troll over raw is pointless.

 

[DEFCON 1]

You people all act like "RAW" is somehow good and "house ruling" is less than. Got news for all of you... they are exactly the same. You get no points for playing the game "RAW" or less points for playing with "house rules"... or the other way around. There ARE NO points. Thinking you get to say "I only play RAW!" as though that actually means something? Sorry, but it doesn't. So whether you interpret rules or think you don't HAVE to interpret rules because you see them so clearly that interpretation isn't necessary? It doesn't matter. Your game runs the same either way and no one else cares how you do it.

Attempting to use "Well, what you are using is a house rule" as though that's like an insult? It's ridiculous.