Shifter Underpowered?

[Oni]

I've a question regarding a shifters abilities.

If I recall correctly polymorph was erratted so to specify that Templates could no longer be taken. Wildshape as erratted no longer makes any reference to polymorph however. So is the shifter free to tack on templates to their shape changes?



As far as balance goes I'd say that with maybe the exception of the first couple of levels when the shifter PrC is first taken the a druid shifter is equal to a fighter all the way up. I think of the shifter as a very versatile fighting class if I were to play one through to level 20 I'd go 5 druid/10 shifter/ then either barb/fighter, or fighter for the rest of the levels. Good saves all around and with the added combat feats and BAB a powerful opponent especially with their access to spell resistance.

 

[wolff96]

For a fighter/druid/shifter, I'd go with the Dwarf. That con bonus will help you, since the shifter relies on his natural hitpoints. Also, by going druid 5/shifter 10/fighter 5 you can get through the shifter class faster and still not take an experience penalty for your fighter levels. This one still bothers me on an intellectual level, though... something about a dwarven druid just doesn't seem right to me.

Personally, I'm going to go with a Gnomish Druid/Shifter if I ever get the chance. The Str penalty doesn't matter, since you won't ever be in your normal form once you get a few shifter levels. The con bonus is very useful for the hitpoints. And the basic gnome has some useful bonuses in his size, AC, and attack rolls.

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The shifter, though, seems a bit underpowered to me. When a 17th level wizard, sorcerer, druid, or cleric w/animal domain can equal ten levels of prestige class with a single spell (though it is dispell-able), something seems a bit wrong. Then add in that Shapechange is more powerful than the Shifter - no hit dice or size limits. Then keep in mind that they still have all of their spells...

Personally, I would just make it so that the Shifter levels count double towards the hit dice limit. So a druid 10/Shifter 10 could change into something with 30HD.

 

[Galfridus]

And all you have to do to stop that Wizard is turn into a Will O' Wisp. Spell Immunity rules.

At least until the wizard pulls out his Wand of Magic Missile.

 

[kreynolds]

At least until the wizard pulls out his Wand of Magic Missile.

LOL The Iron Mark would hate having to play against you! LOL

Player: "Haha! I am now a will-o'-wisp! I am impervious to magic! Hahaha! ....... Oh crap...is that magic missile?...gulp"

 

[Oni]

Well if the templates are fair game then the celestial or the fiendish template would yield up some kickin' spell resistance.

 

[EOL]

LOL The Iron Mark would hate having to play against you! LOL

Player: "Haha! I am now a will-o'-wisp! I am impervious to magic! Hahaha! ....... Oh crap...is that magic missile?...gulp"

Then the Shifter turns into a Nyth from the Monsters of Fearun. Looks just like a will-o-wisp, but it reflects magic missiles.....

 

[SpikeyFreak]

And I think someone said that the Sage said that a Shifter can heal themselves only up to 9 times(plus any Wild Shapes from Druid). If this didn't happen then Shifters would be really good.

Who cares if they can't heal themselves with the shape change. They can change into a troll.

--Flurry-of-Posts Spikey

 

[The Iron Mark]

About the Magic Missile, it's Magic Missile! I mean, it's good, but not that good. There's also Templates, and I can still cast spells at you. Will O' Wisps can also make themselves Invisible.

 

[Oni]

Who cares if they can't heal themselves with the shape change. They can change into a troll.

--Flurry-of-Posts Spikey

I'm not sure that would work for damage already taken. You see the trick with regeneration is that it converts damage into subdual damage. I find it questionable that it would convert damage that you had already taken. I think a much safer bet would be to transform into a creature with fast healing instead in order to heal yourself. However if you not worried about the weakness regen is far more useful going into combat as you don't have to worry nearly as much about being killed with can still be done with fast healing. Though I personally do not think it is something that is in need of errata for these reasons.


1. There is a spell that duplicates the abilities of the class for a decently long period of time, and actually does it better than 10 levels in a prestige class does it (like become collossal and exceed the HD limitations, and changing as a free action).

2. Considering all they have given up 10 spellcasting levels which would have been close to enough, or enough to have the shapechange spell listed above, plus a whole load of other abilities or spells.

3. They could just shift into something that had fast healing anyway as that is a ex ability.

4. It is a move equivalent action to change still and they would not gain back all their HP, only equal to their level. So if they want to change form every round to gain HP they give up their move.

Considering all that the shifter gives up and how his own ability can be overshadowed with a single spell. And considering at that level of play there are alot of dangers that don't do damage, and there are many creatures that can do far more than 20 damage in a round I would say its really not that big of a deal.

 

[The Iron Mark]

So what about my original post? Is there something we could give the Shifter that's original? My example was (Su) abilities.