Shifter - Who needs DR when you've got hardness?

[Andor]

Shifter - Who neers DR when you've got hardness?

I just noticed something today. The shifter cannot get DR. DR is defined as a supernatural power. However in gaining the ability to turn into a contruct the shifter can turn into an animated anything. IE Anything animated with the animate object spell counts as a construct. Therefore the shifter can turn into anything can could be theoretically affected by the animate object spell. Animated objects retain there hardness, as per the PHB page 135.

So your shifter can just turn into an animated adamantine statue of himself and gain hardness 20.

-Andor

 

[Avatar of the North]

i think it was stupid for ALL dr to be supernatural. Consider the Barbarian and Dwarven defender, something there just strikes me wrong with that being supernatural.

 

[hong]

i think it was stupid for ALL dr to be supernatural. Consider the Barbarian and Dwarven defender, something there just strikes me wrong with that being supernatural.

? The barbarian and dwarven defender DR is Ex, no Su.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Shifter - Who neers DR when you've got hardness?

Animated objects retain there hardness, as per the PHB page 135.

Sorry, but I feel like an idiot. I can't find that anywhere on page 135 of the PH. Can you give me a subheading or something? Thanks.

 

[Darkness]

Re: Re: Shifter - Who neers DR when you've got hardness?

Sorry, but I feel like an idiot. I can't find that anywhere on page 135 of the PH. Can you give me a subheading or something? Thanks.

That might be because, while the section about attacking objects begins on page 135, hardness is described more on page 136.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Shifter - Who neers DR when you've got hardness?

Animated objects retain there hardness, as per the PHB page 135.

Hmmm...still not finding it. Not on page 135, 136, 137, 138...help? It is, however, right on page 18 of the MM, in the Animated Object description. Here it is.

Hardness (Ex): An animated object has the same hardness it had before it was animated (see Attack an Object, page 135 in the Player's Handbook.

Hardness is the only thing the animated object gets to carry over from being a normal object. It doesn't mention any others though. So it takes normal damage like a construct would.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

One of the many reasons I'm not letting the shifter into my games. There are just far to many possibilities in being able to turn into anything, for this to be remotely balanced. Sure on the surface it can look balanced, but once you start figuring out all the crazy things that can be done it just isn't even close to balanced.

 

[Piratecat]

One of the many reasons I'm not letting the shifter into my games. There are just far to many possibilities in being able to turn into anything, for this to be remotely balanced. Sure on the surface it can look balanced, but once you start figuring out all the crazy things that can be done it just isn't even close to balanced.

I'd feel a whole lot better about that declaration if you had playtested it or tried it first. I'd also welcome some specific examples if you'd want to present any. It would be interesting to see how they stack up with spells available to an equivalent level druid. Considering that the class stops getting spells and encourages creative play, I'd allow it in my game gladly.

I'm not sure I'd allow someone to turn into an animated adamantine statue of themselves, though. I don't think "construct" includes "an animated table," or whatever. Am I being too conservative?

 

[Pielorinho]

I'm not sure I'd allow someone to turn into an animated adamantine statue of themselves, though. I don't think "construct" includes "an animated table," or whatever. Am I being too conservative?

Well, the way the power is written, I think it does include an animated adamantine statue. This opens up a whole realm of Odo-like possibilities:

-Could you turn into an animated diamond the size of your head? Sell this to the bad guys for beaucoup bucks. Just don't move while you're in this form.

-Need a super-expensive focus for a spell? Turn into an animated version of the focus.

-"Wonder twin powers, Activate! Form of: an animated bucket of water!" Okay, that one's not so powerful. But now I have an idea for a couple of shifter villains in my campaign....

Daniel

 

[Shard O'Glase]

When it comes to magic and magic like effects I have zip faith in their playtesting. Who ever playtested shapechange, time stop, harm, blade barrier, poly self, poly other, poly any dropped the ball any where from a minor degree maybe a level or two off to a massive degree that spell should never of gotten into the game as written. And those are just the spells I can come up with at the drop of a hat, there are probably plenty more where problems crop up with the spells in them selves, you add in combinations of spells and it just gets worse.

When I 1st looked at the shifter I thought it was ok they gave up 10 spell levels for mad shapeshifitng powers. And at the really high levels where the druid could of gotten shapechange a totally unbalanced spell I guess sure it might be balanced to that.

As for specific examples I think that entire aint shifters cool thread, lets list all the EX abilities they can gain. Just begins to show the potential. I think given time people will really learn how to abuse this and the smackdowns with this class will make most other smackdowns laughable. Though heck a 17th level wiz/druid can just cast shapechange, and turn into a solid block of adamanitite 200' on a side doing a couple 1,000d6 at least when they drop on everything beneath them from a huge height of 10'. Yeah the massive playtesting of the PH (which was playtested much more than the splat books) really made things balanced.