D&D 5E Shifting ability scores − fine or too much bookkeeping?

[Yaarel]

The UA Eladrin has ‘shifting seasons’, where after each short or long rest, the traits (there just cantrips) change depending on which season the Eladrin aligns with.

As a thought experiment, I was wondering about amping up this concept.

Here, the Elf is a ‘family of races’, similar to the Giant, where each race can be quite different from the other races in the same family. The Eladrin Elf can be Charisma even if the Tolkien Elf is Dexterity. Both can still belong to the Elf family.

The Eladrin Elf improves +2 Charisma score.

The other ability score improvement can change after each rest according to the Shifting Seasons.

Autumn: +1 Wisdom
Winter: +1 Intelligence
Spring: +1 Dexterity
Summer: +1 Strength



Shifting ability scores might be interesting. Is it fine? Or is it too much bookkeeping? The simple approach is simply to determine the ‘dominant season’ at the time of character creation and have the improvement correspond to it. But shifting might be cool.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It would work way better if we were still using 2E style skills, where a Survival (Wisdom) check literally just meant rolling under your Wisdom score on a d20. As it stands, a +1 bonus to a stat means literally nothing half of the time, so there would be no reason for the Eladrin to ever shift into those seasons.

A better way to reflect that sort of thing in 5E would be to assign Advantage to skill checks based on that attribute (but probably not attack rolls or saving throws). For example, shifting to Summer would grant Advantage on Strength-based skill checks.

If you wanted to balance that a little better, you could also have them give Disadvantage on the opposing stat, so Summer would grant Advantage to Strength-based skill checks and Disadvantage to Intelligence-based skill checks.

 

[Charlaquin]

Too much bookkeeping, yeah. You could have four Subraces, each permanently associated with a different season. Or, if you want to keep the shifting aspect, each with a slightly stronger affinity for one season than the others. Maybe Eladrin have an especially powerful connection to the season they were born in. But shifting ability scores... yeah, I think that would be more trouble than it’s worth.

 

[Harzel]

It would work way better if we were still using 2E style skills, where a Survival (Wisdom) check literally just meant rolling under your Wisdom score on a d20. As it stands, a +1 bonus to a stat means literally nothing half of the time, so there would be no reason for the Eladrin to ever shift into those seasons.

In a weird way it would be an incentive to make those ability scores odd.

A better way to reflect that sort of thing in 5E would be to assign Advantage to skill checks based on that attribute (but probably not attack rolls or saving throws). For example, shifting to Summer would grant Advantage on Strength-based skill checks.

If you wanted to balance that a little better, you could also have them give Disadvantage on the opposing stat, so Summer would grant Advantage to Strength-based skill checks and Disadvantage to Intelligence-based skill checks.

Advantage certainly would be easier, but it is equivalent to more or less +/- 8 to the ability score. That seems pretty large compared to a +1 racial stat adjustment. Balancing with Disadvantage results in sort of a wash, though I guess the ability to switch off is worth something. It definitely would create an interesting choice (though perhaps not always a welcome one ). The choice might sometimes be driven by where you want to avoid Disadvantage rather than where you want to gain Advantage.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Advantage certainly would be easier, but it is equivalent to more or less +/- 8 to the ability score. That seems pretty large compared to a +1 racial stat adjustment. Balancing with Disadvantage results in sort of a wash, though I guess the ability to switch off is worth something. It definitely would create an interesting choice (though perhaps not always a welcome one ). The choice might sometimes be driven by where you want to avoid Disadvantage rather than where you want to gain Advantage.

One of the big problems with the basic mechanics of D&D, going back to third edition, is just how little the base ability scores actually matter to incidental skill checks. The difference between an 8 and an 18 should matter more than a quarter of the time, when you make a check where that's the only relevant factor.

Whenever we step in as designers, creating a new race or spell or whatever, we have to decide whether or not to address that issue. A small stat bonus might be how the game normally acknowledges a significant racial difference, but I think that Advantage would do a better job of reflecting that (and limiting it to non-combat rolls would prevent it from being too overpowered).

 

[Harzel]

One of the big problems with the basic mechanics of D&D, going back to third edition, is just how little the base ability scores actually matter to incidental skill checks. The difference between an 8 and an 18 should matter more than a quarter of the time, when you make a check where that's the only relevant factor.

Whenever we step in as designers, creating a new race or spell or whatever, we have to decide whether or not to address that issue. A small stat bonus might be how the game normally acknowledges a significant racial difference, but I think that Advantage would do a better job of reflecting that (and limiting it to non-combat rolls would prevent it from being too overpowered).

Interesting point. What do you think of using (ability score - 10) instead of (ability score - 10) / 2? That would also keep the die roll from overwhelming the ability score quite as much. Might want to adjust DCs a bit. Sort of 1e-ish.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Interesting point. What do you think of using (ability score - 10) instead of (ability score - 10) / 2? That would also keep the die roll from overwhelming the ability score quite as much. Might want to adjust DCs a bit. Sort of 1e-ish.

Specifically for skill checks, that could work well, but it does break Bounded Accuracy - the general design goal that anyone can succeed on any task. You can't succeed on a DC 15 check if your modifier to the d20 roll is -6, after all. That's another reason why I would suggest going with Advantage in this scenario.

Fixing the stat system would require a greater overhaul of the system mechanics in order for it to really work.

 

[Yaarel]

I find the idea of skill advantage appealing. Actually, it does a better job at the concept clusters that are of interest.

Autumn: Nature, Medicine, Animal Handling
Winter: Arcana, Perception, Investigation
Spring: Persuasion, Insight, Performance
Summer: Athletics, Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand

 

[Harzel]

Specifically for skill checks, that could work well, but it does break Bounded Accuracy - the general design goal that anyone can succeed on any task. You can't succeed on a DC 15 check if your modifier to the d20 roll is -6, after all. That's another reason why I would suggest going with Advantage in this scenario.

Fixing the stat system would require a greater overhaul of the system mechanics in order for it to really work.

I live close enough to Seattle that being struck down by an enhanced Meteor Swarm is probably not out of the question. However, I will accept that risk and say that if you have an ability score of 4, not being able to succeed on a task of Moderate difficulty does not bother me too mu

 

[Quickleaf]

Too much bookkeeping.

Ability Score changes on the fly were drastically reduced in 5e quite deliberately - to speed play.

Notice wording on enhance ability spells (e.g. Bear’s Endurance. The target has advantage on Constitution checks. It also gains 2d6 temporary hit points, which are lost when the spell ends.)

Notice how most undead (exception Shadows) reduce maximum hit points instead of messing with level or ability scores.