Shillelagh and quarterstaffs

[drnuncheon]

Note the words as if in this sentence. The fact is, a quarterstaff is one weapon, either end of which can be used to attack. It is a weapon (as you pointed out in the Magic Weapon description), not two. If it gets Sundered, the entire weapon is sundered, not just one end.

If any DM seriously tried to claim that you couldn't use a sundered quarterstaff as a club, I'd laugh. And then leave.

J

 

[kreynolds]

Incorrect. You can conceivably stab with both a sword and dagger at the same time against a single opponent. Or you can chop with both weapons at the same time.

You know, I could also jump up into the air and kick someone in the face with both feet, but that'd be pretty stupid since I would end up landing on my arse, leaving myself open to attack for a split second. Hmmm. Maybe that's why nobody pulls brilliant moves like stabbing both of your weapons at the same target thereby leaving yourself completely open to attack.

Anyways, your argument is really about visualization and not the rules, so what the heck are we talking about it for?

 

[kreynolds]

If any DM seriously tried to claim that you couldn't use a sundered quarterstaff as a club, I'd laugh. And then leave.

OK. Bye.

 

[KarinsDad]

If any DM seriously tried to claim that you couldn't use a sundered quarterstaff as a club, I'd laugh. And then leave.

There is no chance in your mind of a splintered quarterstaff where neither end is really useable?

But, on the other hand, every sundered Two Handed Sword breaks off exactly at the hilt in your mind, so that you cannot grab the blade and use it as opposed to just breaking off the tip where you could still use it?

Sundered is sundered. There should be no exceptions for different weapons. If someone takes the time out to Sunder a weapon, you can better believe that as a DM, I am not going to let the user of the weapon (be it PC or NPC) the chance to pick up part of it and use it. That's not fair to the character doing the Sunder.

So, I would laugh as you walk out the door.

You cannot use this type of argument to indicate that double weapons are not "a weapon". They sunder and they disarm as one weapon. They can just be used in a fighting style that allows you to use both ends. But they are, a weapon.

 

[Lord Ben]

I had a PC with a heavy mace that got eaten due to a rust monster. For the rest of combat I let him swing the hilt as a d4+str club... not bad.

 

[KarinsDad]

I had a PC with a heavy mace that got eaten due to a rust monster. For the rest of combat I let him swing the hilt as a d4+str club... not bad.

Yup. And I have no problem with that type of ruling. What should have happened did. The metal was taken away from the weapon, making it an inferior wooden weapon.

I do have a problem with screwing the character taking the time out to do a sunder, just because a player thinks he should be able to pick up half of a quarterstaff and use it as a club.

 

[Kai Lord]

You know, I could also jump up into the air and kick someone in the face with both feet, but that'd be pretty stupid since I would end up landing on my arse, leaving myself open to attack for a split second.

If you launched yourself into the air WWF-style and drilled someone in the face with both feet, trust me, you'd be getting up quicker than the other guy.

Nevertheless, that isn't how I pictured two-weapon fighting, it was just my extreme example to show how two attacks due to the weapon(s) and not skill require a situation where someone conceivably could attack twice almost simultaneously.

Hmmm. Maybe that's why nobody pulls brilliant moves like stabbing both of your weapons at the same target thereby leaving yourself completely open to attack.

Anyways, your argument is really about visualization and not the rules, so what the heck are we talking about it for?

1. Quarterstaves are cool. Nothing wrong with them.
2. Likewise, using both ends of a quarterstaff to attack someone is cool.
3. Attacking with both ends in the same amount of time it takes a trained warrior to attack with a light or medium weapon once seems a little silly.

But I think I've realized my hangup with it. Swinging a shortsword twice requires one arm to swing forward, back, then forward again. Attacking with each end of a quarterstaff only requires each arm to swing forward once, which.....I do concede is just like two-weapon fighting.

Dancing Leprechauns 1. Kai Lord 0.

 

[Artoomis]

If you launched yourself into the air WWF-style and drilled someone in the face with both feet, trust me, you'd be getting up quicker than the other guy.

If you did in in true WWF style, than no one would actually get hurt.

 

[Ristamar]

If you did in in true WWF style, than no one would actually get hurt.

Well, 99% of the time, anyway. Heh.

Speaking of which, I wonder if someone made/will make a d20 wrestling game. Even if it totally sucked (which it likely would), it'd probably be a great read. The feats alone would be hilarious.

Besides, who wouldn't want to know the damage dice of a steel chair? Or the crit. range of the Rock Bottom?

Perhaps one day we'll have these answers, and more...

 

[drnuncheon]

There is no chance in your mind of a splintered quarterstaff where neither end is really useable?

I suppose that depends on what weapon was doing the sundering. Most of the time, if you break a stick, you have two shorter sticks. Which is to say, clubs.

But, on the other hand, every sundered Two Handed Sword breaks off exactly at the hilt in your mind, so that you cannot grab the blade and use it as opposed to just breaking off the tip where you could still use it?

Nah, if someone said 'I want to pick up the head of the halberd and attack with it' or 'I want to hit him with the shattered remains of my two-handed sword', I'd let them do it. Not with the full capabilities of the weapon, of course - but this isn't a video game, the weapons don't just vanish when they break.

Probably, I would use my phenomenal cosmic DM powers to assess an appropriate circumstance penalty to hit and/or damage. (And if a DM said 'yes, your broken quarterstaff can be used as a club, but it's not balanced very well, take a -2 penalty' I'd think that was fair, too.)

You cannot use this type of argument to indicate that double weapons are not "a weapon". They sunder and they disarm as one weapon. They can just be used in a fighting style that allows you to use both ends. But they are, a weapon.

Except, apparently, when forging or magically enhancing them, when they are treated as two weapons.

But only when you're permanently magically enhancing them.

The mages aren't smart enough to figure out how to make a magical enhancement to both ends permanent without doing two separate enchantments - even though it's trivial with a magic weapon spell.

J