D&D 5E Short/Long Rest in LMoP

[Nebulous]

While you need to adjust difficulty to the group as appropriate, I also really dislike "static dungeon" syndrome.

I understand it in video games, but in D&D actions have consequences and NPCs and monsters will respond appropriately to PC's actions or inaction.

Long story short, the PCs left Venomfang in Cragmaw Castle after robbing her. She's pissed and on the lookout for revenge, and she's going to punish Phandalin. When (if?) the PCs make it there again after Wave Echo, there's going to be a lot of dead people and even some of their NPC friends, victims of the green dragon.

 

[Charlaquin]

They don't know about the hill giant or the ogres outside. They killed one giant last night, long rested, and entered Wave Echo. I was going to have the other giant return with ogre reinforcements. I could also have one giant come, or one or two ogres, and camp outside. The PCs could easily kill a couple ogres, although if resources are low a hill giant would maul them. But yes, that's a story point I could fudge, it hasn't actually happened yet.

Let's say the area outside the mine is cleared of all enemies and the campsite is free. What keeps the party from going back out there to Long Rest whenever they want to. I suppose if they try a second time then THAT is when there's a hill giant and ogres?

I think relying on the hill giant and ogres posted outside the cave to prevent the players from retreating to take a long rest is what got you in this pickle in the first place. Instead of trying to prevent the possibility of a long rest, I would recommend insuring that taking a long rest has consequences. Sure, the party can go back into the mine the next day, fight one group of monsters, and come right back out again to rest back up to full. But the mine shouldn’t just sit in suspended animation while they do that. The monsters in the mine should fortify their defenses in anticipation of the players’ next incursion. Meanwhile, the players are spending nearly 24 hours just sitting there at a camp in the middle of the wilderness just outside of a monster-infested mine. There should be several random encounter rolls during that time. The 5-minute workday is only really a problem if you allow it to be an effective strategy. Simply making it a risky proposition will, I think, be far more effective than plopping a kill box outside the dungeon. It makes taking or not taking rest into a tactical decision, instead of being the obvious best option that you’re only allowed to make every so often.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

I don't think Gary Gygax will smite you from heaven if you bend your house rules and let the characters level on a short rest. That said, I agree with the suggestions to reduce the firepower at the entrance and let the characters get out, recover, and level up. Or, failing that, just have the Black Spider TPK the party. Rather than dying, they wake up as his prisoners, with half hit points, and at level 5. That could be fun too!

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't think Gary Gygax will smite you from heaven if you bend your house rules and let the characters level on a short rest. That said, I agree with the suggestions to reduce the firepower at the entrance and let the characters get out, recover, and level up. Or, failing that, just have the Black Spider TPK the party. Rather than dying, they wake up as his prisoners, with half hit points, and at level 5. That could be fun too!

Have them wake up in a drow prison in the underdark. Boom, now you’re playing Out of the Abyss.

 

[Shiroiken]

I agree with those who've said the players have made their bed and have to live with the consequences. It's a 4 hour hike back to civilization, past 1 tough encounter plus wandering monsters. Staying inside should pretty much be certain death, because backed into a corner, the BBEG can storm the room with minions while the party is resting. Even if you're generous and let them have the long rest (with the level), the BBEG should rig the area so that leaving it will leave them just as bad as they're right now.

I don't think Gary Gygax will smite you from heaven if you bend your house rules and let the characters level on a short rest.

Based on his play style... he just might!

 

[DragonBelow]

How funny, my group was in a similar situation. They had 2 sessions in WEC, they had not long rested, but they had defeated The Black Spider (and captured him). Outside WEC was a beefed up Glassstaff waiting for them (along with 4 red brand ruffians, 4 cultists, a half dragon, and a Bone Naga) with a beaten down Reidoth (the druid from Thundertree). I thought they were going to get the crap kicked out of them. In the end, Glassstaff had to flee, which I'm not too upset about. I suspect they didn't track resources meticulously enough, which kind of bothers me, and will be making sure to track spells more closely going forward. But in the end Glassstaff's still out there to keep annoying them.

 

[DragonBelow]

Forgot to mention, I have 6 players, and they were 5th level at the time.

 

[Nebulous]

Have them wake up in a drow prison in the underdark. Boom, now you’re playing Out of the Abyss.

well there ya go

 

[Charlaquin]

well there ya go

I actually did that myself, when my players got TPK’d by the goblins in the beginning of LMoP. Little did I realize at the time what a terrible adventure OotA is

 

[Nebulous]

I think relying on the hill giant and ogres posted outside the cave to prevent the players from retreating to take a long rest is what got you in this pickle in the first place. Instead of trying to prevent the possibility of a long rest, I would recommend insuring that taking a long rest has consequences. Sure, the party can go back into the mine the next day, fight one group of monsters, and come right back out again to rest back up to full. But the mine shouldn’t just sit in suspended animation while they do that. The monsters in the mine should fortify their defenses in anticipation of the players’ next incursion. Meanwhile, the players are spending nearly 24 hours just sitting there at a camp in the middle of the wilderness just outside of a monster-infested mine. There should be several random encounter rolls during that time. The 5-minute workday is only really a problem if you allow it to be an effective strategy. Simply making it a risky proposition will, I think, be far more effective than plopping a kill box outside the dungeon. It makes taking or not taking rest into a tactical decision, instead of being the obvious best option that you’re only allowed to make every so often.

I do (and did) use ample random encounters. They missed 12 in a row on the way to the mine, so if I'm going to make something dangerous I need to make SURE it is going to happen and not hope on the fate of the dice. Of course, that said, they'll probably roll 10 encounters in a row and get slaughtered next.

I do day and night encounters every day, and for the dangerous mountains I would probably go 15+ on d20. 30% of attracting the attention of something. I already have a random encounter checklist ready. Not all combat encounters either. But mostly.

The mine is not in suspended animation, but most of the enemies are mindless undead or undead that won't leave. The Black Spider has some bugbear guards and void spiders, but they're going to stay inside the mine. The biggest wild card is the renegade drow faction who might venture out at night. But they're not a part of the scenario, I added them.

Having the Black Spider shore up defenses would be the most logical thing in vast tracts of time, and since he's the one summoning the void spiders, any stretch he's able to open the portal just replenishes the spiders, and they come in 4 flavors. The white ones are the worst.