Shortened buff spell durations: Good or bad?
- Thread starter Grog
- Start date
Good!
I'm sick and tired of spellcasters getting expensive magic items at the cost of a few spell slots. Continuous (or nearly) effects (extended buffs) are not what should occupy the majority of the caster's list. Surprized casters should be at a disadvantage.
I like the change and plan to implement it.
I'm sick and tired of spellcasters getting expensive magic items at the cost of a few spell slots. Continuous (or nearly) effects (extended buffs) are not what should occupy the majority of the caster's list. Surprized casters should be at a disadvantage.
I like the change and plan to implement it.
Kraedin
First Post
Long term buffs were as much a boon to the fighting classes as the casting classes. Our fighters used to go around polymorphed, with a bull's strength, cat's grace, endurance, owl's wisdom, ect. on whenever we were in combat. It increased the party's damage per round considerably.
If I were to weaken the ability score buffs, I would reduce the effect, not the duration. Perhaps to a +2 enhancement bonus instead. The original effect was rather variable. Some quick calculations show that bull's strength could yeild anywhere from 1-5 additional points of damage per attack; the high end of that is perhaps excessive for a 2nd level long-duration buffing spell.
If I were to weaken the ability score buffs, I would reduce the effect, not the duration. Perhaps to a +2 enhancement bonus instead. The original effect was rather variable. Some quick calculations show that bull's strength could yeild anywhere from 1-5 additional points of damage per attack; the high end of that is perhaps excessive for a 2nd level long-duration buffing spell.
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dcollins
Explorer
I'm surprised by this change and disagree with it. I didn't think it was overpowered to begin with, and don't see why they skipped over the 10 min/level option all the way down to (basically) one fight. I think the spells become underpowered at this duration.
As a flavor thing, it's occured to me that now you can't have a beneficient NPC cast these on in town you prior to riding into the wilderness for a battle.
As a flavor thing, it's occured to me that now you can't have a beneficient NPC cast these on in town you prior to riding into the wilderness for a battle.
Dr_Rictus
First Post
Re: Good!
That's exactly the opposite of what happened in my groups. The 2nd-level ability-boosting spells ended up not getting used all that much at high levels, because everybody already had magic items for most of the abilities they cared about. Certainly none of our spellcasters would ever dream of risking his bonus-spell-granting enhancement bonus to a stray dispel magic.
LokiDR said:
That's exactly the opposite of what happened in my groups. The 2nd-level ability-boosting spells ended up not getting used all that much at high levels, because everybody already had magic items for most of the abilities they cared about. Certainly none of our spellcasters would ever dream of risking his bonus-spell-granting enhancement bonus to a stray dispel magic.
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danzig138
Explorer
Originally, I was neutral about the change. It isn't going to affect my groups much, due to they way they play and the way I run. But after all of the complaining, especially about how this will promote some sort of "quick, find the next encounter!" mentality, which, IMO, if it happens will be because of dumb-behind players, I have to say it's good. It sounds like the buff spells were spells everyone had to have (not IME), and as I recall, if the spell is to good for people to pass up, then it's probably to good.
I'm pro.
Personally I thought those buffs were too powerful, to the point where if a new player didn't memorize any buffs the rest of the party would berate them on their "mistake".
Has anyone made a character that didn't memorize a single buff spell in the "bull's strength" series? I know I have, but its fairly a rare thing to see.
Especially at higher levels its silly not to. They last forever, you have better (higher) spell slots with which to use in battle, and it saves money on expensive items.
Thats why they were "too good". I think had they been reduced to 10min/level things would be ok. It would be a prep spell but it wouldn't be cast in a pow-wow at the beginning of the day, rather before a fight or perhaps on the first round.
By relegating it to a "battle-only" spell I believe its potency to be reduced, though changing it to a flat +4 vs 1d4+1 helped. I think it really needs to be like the d20 modern rules, where there is one spell that can be cast for whatever ability score you need on the fly. If necessary, perhaps 2 divisions, one for mental one for physical. These might work as 1min/level spells as they have many more possibilities.
It would also appeal to sorcerors more, as spells with more options are always better for sorcs.
At the end of the day we are left waiting to see the actual books and how 3.5 will actually be. I think there is something flawed with the way it is presented in the dungeon article, too much power was lost, it was nerfed instead of toned down.
Technik
Personally I thought those buffs were too powerful, to the point where if a new player didn't memorize any buffs the rest of the party would berate them on their "mistake".
Has anyone made a character that didn't memorize a single buff spell in the "bull's strength" series? I know I have, but its fairly a rare thing to see.
Especially at higher levels its silly not to. They last forever, you have better (higher) spell slots with which to use in battle, and it saves money on expensive items.
Thats why they were "too good". I think had they been reduced to 10min/level things would be ok. It would be a prep spell but it wouldn't be cast in a pow-wow at the beginning of the day, rather before a fight or perhaps on the first round.
By relegating it to a "battle-only" spell I believe its potency to be reduced, though changing it to a flat +4 vs 1d4+1 helped. I think it really needs to be like the d20 modern rules, where there is one spell that can be cast for whatever ability score you need on the fly. If necessary, perhaps 2 divisions, one for mental one for physical. These might work as 1min/level spells as they have many more possibilities.
It would also appeal to sorcerors more, as spells with more options are always better for sorcs.
At the end of the day we are left waiting to see the actual books and how 3.5 will actually be. I think there is something flawed with the way it is presented in the dungeon article, too much power was lost, it was nerfed instead of toned down.
Technik
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