Shot on the Run, Manyshot and stuff :)

[Hypersmurf]

I'm really curious about those 'sources' quoted above though, please let me know what they are?

Andy Collins (who wrote the feat) has confirmed on numerous occasions that the two feats do not work together, because Manyshot does not use the Attack Action.

The Sage agrees. I have the email at home, but essentially, he said "It may seem that those who say the two feats do not work together are slicing the baloney a little thin, but they are in fact correct."

-Hyp.

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

Andy Collins (who wrote the feat) has confirmed on numerous occasions that the two feats do not work together, because Manyshot does not use the Attack Action.

The Sage agrees. I have the email at home, but essentially, he said "It may seem that those who say the two feats do not work together are slicing the baloney a little thin, but they are in fact correct."

-Hyp.

and I agreed as well - even had some form of what I hope was logically consistent proof. I found the link over to andy's thread, thanks.

Now I can fire another salvo at my players

 

[Deset Gled]

One specific standard action is multishot. Another specific standard action is an attack action. However, the fact that they are both in the same category does not mean they are equivalent.

You cannot perform an act that is specifically a standard action when you are only specifically allowed an attack action. Multishot is specifically a standard action. Shot on the Run specifically allows only an attack action. Thus, mutishot cannot be used while using Shot on the Run.


Bah, looks like I got to this a little too late. Ah well.

 

[rkanodia]

So, like I posted earlier, look on the bright side: you can thus Multishot in the middle of a raging melee without any difficulties. After all, the SRD tells us that "attack (ranged)" draws AoO, but we've clearly established that Manyshot is not an attack action.

 

[Zaruthustran]

So, like I posted earlier, look on the bright side: you can thus Multishot in the middle of a raging melee without any difficulties. After all, the SRD tells us that "attack (ranged)" draws AoO, but we've clearly established that Manyshot is not an attack action.

Er... you're right. Manyshot is, I guess, a miscelaneous standard action not on this table:

Standard Action Attack of
Opportunity1
Attack (melee) No
Attack (ranged) Yes
Attack (unarmed) Yes
Activate a magic item other than a potion or oil No
Aid another Maybe2
Bull rush No
Cast a spell (1 standard action casting time) Yes
Concentrate to maintain an active spell No
Dismiss a spell No
Draw a hidden weapon (see Sleight of Hand skill) No
Drink a potion or apply an oil Yes
Escape a grapple No
Feint No
Light a torch with a tindertwig Yes
Lower spell resistance No
Make a dying friend stable (see Heal skill) Yes
Overrun No
Read a scroll Yes
Ready (triggers a standard action) No
Sunder a weapon (attack) Yes
Sunder an object (attack) Maybe3
Total defense No
Turn or rebuke undead No
Use extraordinary ability No
Use skill that takes 1 action Usually
Use spell-like ability Yes
Use supernatural ability No

If you don't treat manyshot like a ranged attack action, then you don't treat manyshot as a ranged attack action.

But then you might run into other problems.

How does your Dex modifier work with Manyshot? Dex modifiers are used for "Ranged attack rolls, including those for attacks made with bows, crossbows, throwing axes, and other ranged weapons." Fortunately, the text for Manyshot says "Both arrows use the same attack roll". So you get to add your Dex, even though the attack roll you just made isn't from an attack action.

But still... I agree that this baloney is sliced a little too thin.

-z

 

[Nifelhein]

So many shot is a standard action that provokes AoO, what is the big deal?

 

[Hypersmurf]

After all, the SRD tells us that "attack (ranged)" draws AoO, but we've clearly established that Manyshot is not an attack action.

Well, the table also states that the Full Attack Action does not draw an AoO.

Nevertheless, if you make a ranged attack (not the Attack Action, which is a standard action, but simply a ranged attack) within your FAA, you will incur an AoO.

Manyshot is the same - a standard action (though not the Attack Action) that allows a special ranged attack. And ranged attacks provoke an AoO.

-Hyp.

 

[rkanodia]

Well, the table also states that the Full Attack Action does not draw an AoO.

Nevertheless, if you make a ranged attack (not the Attack Action, which is a standard action, but simply a ranged attack) within your FAA, you will incur an AoO.

Manyshot is the same - a standard action (though not the Attack Action) that allows a special ranged attack. And ranged attacks provoke an AoO.

-Hyp.

Look, I don't honestly think that Manyshot shouldn't draw an attack of opportunity. I just think it's silly (damn the most lawerly interpretation of the rules, and what Andy Collins says) that you can fire multiple arrows in the same amount of time as a single arrow, except when you move before and after the shot. Manyshot already has a penalty on the attack, and it costs a feat.

At this point, I'm just a little curious. I'm having a hard time finding anything in the SRD section of combat that actually says a full-round attack action with a ranged weapon draws AoO. The only thing that really even implies it is the part where it says that you can decide to take a move action after the first attack, instead of getting all your attacks. Even that part doesn't explicitly say that the first attack counts as a standard action in the case that you decide to moved, so it could be interpreted as a 'full round attack, interrupted for movement'.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I just think it's silly that you can fire multiple arrows in the same amount of time as a single arrow.

Except that it's not the same, exactly, since in a full attack action you can perform the act of firing a single arrow several times, while you can't use Manyshot several times.

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Wait a second... full attack action does not draw AoOs, but ranged attacks do?

So if you as an archer make a full attack action, you provoke an AoO for each shot you fire? Cool.