D&D 5E (2014) Should 5e have more classes (Poll and Discussion)?

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

a divine powered skill monkey is close up there

What would you call that? The Seer? Prophet? Oracle/Augur?

 

[DnD Warlord]

What would you call that? The Seer? Prophet? Oracle/Augur?

All good I was going with more The Arcavist a servant who specializes in lore

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I had though of the concept of a divine half-caster that was more like an Artificer than a Paladin (getting cantrips, an invocation-type feature, and divination abilities), which would get a lot of Channel Divinity options and skills, but I am still not exactly sure how you would do that.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

With the Psionic talk in Tasha's BOE, I've be reminded of the Playtest Sorcerer.

That would have coolas a new class.

You get willpower that you can spend to use special powers. Then as you spend willpower, you transform and stay that way until you long rest.

Subclass	When you have willpower	When you run out of willpower
Dragon Disciple	Heavy Armor Blaster	Clawed Tank
Half-Vampire	Shadowcaster	High Speed Striker
Alchemical Hulk	Remarkable Athlete	Hulk Smash
Warden of Vine	Plant based Controller	I am Groot
Warden of Stone	Chucker of Rocks	It's Clobbering Time
Archon of Light	Burst Healer	Glowing Lazergun

Frankly I'm deeply saddened that the Playtest Sorcerer and Warlock were killed dead. I've honestly no idea why people disliked them so much, they were REALLY cool ideas with lots of creativity involved. The designers so swiftly caving on those concepts pretty much doomed any chance that 5e would actually rock the boat or do anything outside the neat little box of "tradition" (where "tradition" is interpreted as "mostly what 3.5e did.")

What would you call that? The Seer? Prophet? Oracle/Augur?

Avenger. Why not? It would be a rare olive branch to 4e fans, especially if its mechanics were translated as closely as possible to the originals. (As opposed to stuff like healing surges vs. hit dice, Warden vs. Oath of the Ancients Paladin, or Warlord vs. [ERROR: DATA NOT FOUND].) The overall class would be about skillful use of precise big strikes (as the 4e Avenger was the first instance of Advantage in a sense, and used big 2h weapons with Dexterity instead of Strength), and subclasses could delve more into stealth ("classic" 4e style), knowledge (3e style Archivist), or detective work ("new" 5e style), supporting their narrative role as the Internal Police force of religious organizations. Operatives, forensic librarians, divine assassins.

 

[Vael]

Frankly I'm deeply saddened that the Playtest Sorcerer and Warlock were killed dead. I've honestly no idea why people disliked them so much, they were REALLY cool ideas with lots of creativity involved. The designers so swiftly caving on those concepts pretty much doomed any chance that 5e would actually rock the boat or do anything outside the neat little box of "tradition" (where "tradition" is interpreted as "mostly what 3.5e did.")

I thought the playtest Sorcerer was interesting, but not as the base Sorcerer. You were pigeonholed into a melee build, and as a caster, it felt too limited. It also felt weird to be "punished" for casting your spells, so to speak.

That's actually been my critique of most attempts to "fix" the Sorcerer, most of the attempts I've seen really want to thematically lock in the Sorcerer, and that's not what I want. I have only just gotten the Level Up version, and that looks a bit more promising.

 

[Dausuul]

[Edited - removed link to playtest material since I noticed it was marked "Do Not Distribute." Probably nobody cares at this late date, but you never know.]

For reference, on the playtest sorcerer/warlock:

The sorcerer used a spell point ("willpower") system, and your subclass unlocked bonuses based on how many spell points you had used that day. For example, dragon sorcerers got bonuses to melee damage rolls after spending 3 spell points, and resistance to your dragon damage type after spending 10. So as you expended your magical resources, you became more of a melee bruiser instead. There were also some subclass-specific ways to use spell points.

The playtest warlock gave up spellcasting altogether (except for rituals), but it had drastically beefed-up invocations to compensate. It also had a "favor" mechanic which was essentially identical to Channel Divinity; two "charges" that can be spent to activate various patron-specific powers, refreshing on a short rest.

They only go to level 5, and the mechanics are quite rough and in need of polish, but I tend to agree--I wish they'd built more on those foundations instead of putting it all into spells.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I thought the playtest Sorcerer was interesting, but not as the base Sorcerer. You were pigeonholed into a melee build, and as a caster, it felt too limited. It also felt weird to be "punished" for casting your spells, so to speak.

That's actually been my critique of most attempts to "fix" the Sorcerer, most of the attempts I've seen really want to thematically lock in the Sorcerer, and that's not what I want. I have only just gotten the Level Up version, and that looks a bit more promising.

Okay, these are actually some cogent criticisms, so before anything else, kudos for actually giving a meaningful answer rather than "I didn't like it" or "it didn't feel like a Sorcerer"--this is something I can respond to. It's still about preferences, but they're articulated and meaningful, which is both rare and extremely appreciated.

I'm not sure why you'd feel you're being "punished" for using your spells? Admittedly, the mechanics were quite rough (as Dausuul just said), so polish was probably warranted. But the whole idea was (in some sense) "unleashing the beast within." The draconic Sorcerer has a physical-fighter "beast within," because dragons are physical powerhouses as well as magical ones. But other flavors--chaos, storm, cosmic, whatever else--could easily be other types. Heck, that would be a great way to make the subclasses different. Storm becomes a controller flinging lightning bolts and dropping twisters and thunderclaps. Chaos lurks about, flitting from place to place, perhaps getting a bonus to attacking things it didn't attack in the previous round. Cosmic becomes effectively stance-based, cycling through almost alternate personalities as different aspects take hold. Favored Soul even makes for a fascinating equal-yet-opposite, where the soul is being pulled, not toward dark ends, but toward benevolent alienation, aiding allies but losing touch with the "human" (or "mortal") element. Shadow becomes a life-sucking leech and, dare I say, phantom menace.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, this elevates subclass to a very high level, as might be expected for a class so thoroughly defined by whom your magic blood comes from. Yes, it "locks in" a particular theme, but it does so because being related to a dragon should be different from being related to a vampire.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Hey, just alerting you of an update to the Arcknight, mostly for Spell Strike, just to balance it a bit more.

 

[jgsugden]

I'd like to see:

Psion - A true psionic class that uses psi points rather than slots and treats psionics as different than standard magic>

Psychic Warrior - Using the same base mechanics of the Psion, but on a melee structure. It would have dexterity (and movement) focuses as well as strength (and brute force) focuses.

Invoker - A Priest that operates off of Charisma build and doesn't use spell slots. Instead, they're built with invocations.

Warlord - A combatant that leads through force of will and leadership. They'd have abilities similar to 4th edition design, with a lot of their abilities allowing them to lead by example. For example, if they hit an enemy, their allies would gain advantage versus the enemy. If they are targeted by something requiring a save at the same time an ally is, the ally can elect to use the warlord's die roll rather than their own. When they move in combat, they leave behind a trail. When an ally travels along that trail, they do not count that movement against their total movement for the round. When They make a save versus a fear effect, any ally further from the source than the Warlord that is targeted by the effect is immune if the warlord makes their save. They can charm without casting a spell. They can frighten enemies. Etc....

The Scientist - The Artificer fills some of this space, but I would go further and make a class that uses science without magic. There would be chemists that make chemical compounds, physicists that can control the battlefield, and biologists that know just how to make an enemy suffer.

 

[Dragonsbane]

Too many, some are redundant. I would be in favor for many many more subclasses. The Faiths of the Forgotten Realms DMGuild books show just how many variations there can be. Even better would be very detailed notes on creating subclasses with balance. So many out there have power creep . . .