D&D 5E Should 5e have save or die?

[Lanefan]

I do have a question for those who a proponents of the saving throw -- how do you feel about going back to the system that requires anyone who fails a saving throw to then make a saving throw for everything they had on them?

That's the way it works around here - always has, always will. Fail a save against a damaging effect and we start on your items. Fail a save vs. petrification and your carried items automatically get stoned with you. And if your items fail a save there can be bigger problems; magic is risky, and breaking a magic item releases said magic in a way it wasn't intended...

I modify the save based on how much damage you take - an 11-point fireball is going to have easier item saves than a 50-point fireball - and if it does less than 10 points the saves are waived (except for some obvious exceptions - if you get hit by any fire while reading a scroll, for example...) entirely.

Lanefan

 

[SteveC]

I think this is one of the big issues, but it's still solvable. Have a power that turns to stone and makes you dead. Then have different options for how those powers work: is it save or die, take a lot of damage, three strikes or what have you. It's doable.

This does illustrate a problem, though, where the GM is going to have to communicate how their games work in some detail. There are some elements to a game that are deal-breakers for me, and so I'm thinking that paging through the GM's rules of the table for a particular game is going to be more than a little frustrating.

 

[Ahnehnois]

That's the best idea I've heard in my life.

Anyone who is defending save or die has spent probably as much time defending save or die as I spend on a character in an ongoing campaign. So the personal investment is the same. Since the medusa is the most frequent example for save or die on this thread, it can be a saving throw vs. petrification. If they fail the roll, they can never defend save or die ever again.

You can use for favourite class and your favorite old school edition, and the level you roll on will be the level of your enworld avatar. Enworld also handily comes with a dice roller.

I know that you enjoy your style of play, just like I enjoy playing my character, but sometimes abrupt and tragic things happen in the real world. If you fail, all you'd have to do is roll up a new playstyle. Sure your fun will be spoiled momentarily, just like my fun is spoiled by having my PC die by an arbitrary bit of bad luck, but don't get so hung up on it. You shouldn't need to be coddled or be afraid of losing one rules mechanic.

(I'm genuinely curious to see who has the stones).

Well...

Ouch. Fortunately, my fort save is so good I would have had to roll a 1 to fail, so I'll be defending for years to come...

 

[ferratus]

OK, I can't see my level while typing this but I know it's reasonable; in the low-mid teens or thereabouts. I'm a 1e Fighter saving vs. petrification. In the interests of fairness I have no magic that'll help. Checking my handy 1e DMG it looks like I'm good above about 6, with 4-6 being borderline and lower a fail.

Good show. Reasonable chance of failure and you still put it on the line.

I'd give you XP but I like your other posts too much.

 

[Androkguz]

This seems to me like the simplest solution that makes everyone happy.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I do have a question for those who a proponents of the saving throw -- how do you feel about going back to the system that requires anyone who fails a saving throw to then make a saving throw for everything they had on them?

I'd like to see that, yes. It makes no sense, that a fireball can burn you to the brink of death, yet your clothes are left in pristine condition. It only becomes a problem when pcs have 97 magic items on them.

 

[mmadsen]

I do have a question for those who a proponents of the saving throw -- how do you feel about going back to the system that requires anyone who fails a saving throw to then make a saving throw for everything they had on them?

Presumably someone who got out of the way -- or otherwise "saved" against a threat -- also got most of the stuff on their body to a safe place, too. I wouldn't mind an exact roll to imply that your barely got away, and something got singed (or whatever).

 

[Nebulous]

since this is such a polarizing issue, i think the solution is take it either modular, or include different types of the same spell/effect in the game. I mentioned this in another thread, but a medusa could have a "Normal" option that has the slower petrifaction, and a "Hard" mode for instant death. These both could be included in the stat block. Likewise, Disintegrate could have a less lethal and more lethal version.