Should adventurers be "better"?

[Snoweel]

Celtavian, you're right that 'better' people (in this case, people with better stats) will have an easier time of adventuring (and indeed, anything), and will be more likely to develop the confidence and courage required to become adventurers.

But such superiority isn't necessary, is it?

And as for Rudy - the kid was a 15-point buy Commoner.

I'm talking about 25-point PC-classed characters - I'm saying that 25 points is enough to build a character that is vastly more capable than Rudy, and is capable of having as big an impact on a gameworld as any character from real life history or fantasy literature.

 

[Celtavian]

re

But such superiority isn't necessary, is it?

Nope, it isn't.

Go read up on those who have been given the Medal of Honor. This site lists all the receivers with citations explaining why they won the medal. It will move most people to tears.

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm

They have a list of every person who has won the Medal of Honor, the highest, most prestigious decoration awared in the U.S. Military during times of war.

Some of those people were extraordinary, but most are just folks with a big heart and sense of duty second to none. Though I liken the adventuring profession to Spec ops Soldiers and professional athletes, actual heroes come in all shapes, sizes and colors. There is no genetic template for hero, never has been, never will be.

I want to be specific about that. To be a top professional adventurer that survives, you would need well-rounded, very good genetics. An adventurer and a hero are not always the same thing though.

 

[green slime]

As an Aussie, Snoweel might appreciate reading about what it takes to earn the VC (Victorian Cross highest decoration for bravery in the Copmmonwealth), more?

Watched on discovery the "Dambusters" and what one of the Pilots involved did to earn his VC... wouldn't catch me doing that I got brains I tell ya...

But snoweel has unboubdtedly read some of those stories, Aussies are brought up on stories like that, what with ANZAC day and all!

 

[Snoweel]

Three words:

John.Simpson.Kirkpatrick.

The bravest man never to have been awarded the Victorian Cross.

 

[green slime]

And for those seeking more info on the VC:

The Victorian Cross Reference

and John Simpson Kirkpatrick

 

[hellbender]

I prefer heroic games.

That's why I came up with a "roll 4d6 and drop the highest" mechanic.

And I would have gotten away with it too, if my players hadn't promised to kill me in my sleep.

I'm serious, by the way.

You see, heroism isn't about power, it's about rising to the challenge and overcoming it. It isn't about being the best, it's about becoming the best.

Very well said, Rune. I still let them drop the lowest, and sometimes that is an extremely merciful thing. Ultimately, being a hero has nothing to do with stats, and everything to do with the synergy of the group, the players, and the opportunities that the players are given by the DM.

hellbender

 

[Valiantheart]

Why?

Why should adventurers be better than normal people?

I think the fact that this question even has to be asked reflects exactly what is wrong with the modern day of reasoning. Now most everybody lives a pampered life and sits back in their comfy homes/apartments, gets on the net or tv and expects things. They think they deserved what everybody else in the world has even though the aren't unwilling to put in the work that those people did to gain them.

Why cant everybody be a hero?
I could run the country better than him.
If i worked out I could play as well as Jordan.
I deserve love and happiness even though I put no effort into finding either.

The simple fact is some people are just better than others. They are born bigger, stronger, smarter and simply more determined. They seek and take what they want while the rest of us sit on our collective asses and expect it to be handed to us because we think we somehow deserve it.

Adventures/Heroes are those people born with those inherent gifts. Your Achilles, Batman, Rand al'thor, Raistlin, Arthur Pendragon, Drizzt Do'urden, or Michael Jordan. Each of these are men who are simply better than those around them. They were born stronger or posses the inherent discipline and desire to be better than everyone else.

 

[Celtavian]

re

Thanks for the link Greenslime.

Interesting fellow John Kirkpatrick. Very brave. A real life heroic story with a sense of humor. A man and his donkey. That was great.

 

[Synicism]

Originally posted by Snoweel However, those of you who made the comparison between adventurers and average (or even weak, stupid, inbred) farmers missed the original post that was railing against guys with IQs of 195 who could bench-press 300 lbs and so on. And that this thread was essentially in response to people complaining that 25-point buy created "weak" heroes.

Nah. 25 points does't create weak heroes. It creates relatively normal people who are bone-headed enough to make a career out of risking their lives for treasure. And it all depends what characters want to play and the goals of my campaign.

If I want the characters to overthrow a corrupt baron and bring freedom to their oppressed people, then 25 points is probably adequate.

If I want the characters to step from the Prime Material into the Outer Planes, tangle with fiends on a regular basis, and hold the fate of creation in their hands, then I want more points. 36, maybe even 40.

Why?

Because the 25 point characters probably won't survive in the Planar game and the 40 point characters probably won't be challenged in the more mundane game. You cross them up, and nobody will have fun.

My D&D games tend towards placing the fate of worlds in the PC's. There comes a point where courage and cleverness simply cannot overcome the monumental odds that I like to throw at my groups. Throw ground-shaking power into the mix, and they stand a fighting chance.

Yeah. I like superheroes. I think D&D is made for world-shaking heroes. So that's what I use it for.

 

[ergeheilalt]

Oddly, my players find my adventures above-par. Perhaps it is a DM issue.

I would not say it is a DM issue so much, as it is what the players and I have found mutually agreeable. We all have the belief that heroes are top notch people, who do extrodiary things. One or two bad scores (read: -1 penalties or greater) is not a bad thing, it lends a bit of reality to the character and makes it a believeable person as opposed to a dietific person of myth. In my expierence, for a character to do well in the heroic type games I run, the point buy has to be pretty high (32-36). Sure it may make some of the encounters easier and will create dreaded uber-score characters; but as long as I'm DMing, I have no problem.

Rolling dice always has that allure of getting an 18 with a 16 and a couple 14's. Of course, I dont demand that my players roll, they can do a higher point buy if they so desire, however rolling the dice appeals to the gambler in me

Erge