OneDnD Should Bards use the common "Psionic" spell list instead of Arcane?

While Bards are arcane casters, there's a some spells they get that Wizards and Sorcerers don't get, and a bunch of spells that Wizards and Sorcerers get but they don't get (without having to use Magical Secrets). I know in Pathfinder 2, Bards use a separate common "Occult" spell list.

So maybe make the Bard use a "psionic" or "mysticism" spell list, and leave that spell list open for a Psion class that comes in later if it doesn't show up in the new PHB. There's some overlap between a Bard's spell and bunch of things Psions have done before. Especially with the emphasis on Enchantment spells, and I don't think it be too out of place if a Bard could eventually mind blast, they already can break things with thunder/sonic spells.

I could see issue would being with more traditionally niche psionic powers/spells like a bunch psychometabolism and metacreation, but those things don't match most people's conception of psionics unless you dig deep into Yogis and concepts like Tulpas (aka Astral Constructs).
 

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Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
So maybe make the Bard use a "psionic" ...

Give it time to realize your crime
Why you have to be a heel?
I have loved psionics for so long
How can this be real?

Do you really want to hurt me?
Do you really want to make me cry?
You wrote "bards," words that burn me
I have to ask you now ... why?

In my heart the bards are dying
Hit 'em on the head with their own guitar
But you want to give them psionics?
That's a step, a step too far

Do you really want to hurt me?
Do you really want to make me cry?
Do you really want to hurt me?
Do you really want to make me cry?
 



Aldarc

Legend
It works in PF2 with the Occult Bard, but I would like the Monk to have access to it for its more magical subclasses.
 

I hope the arcane list misses out on the most iconic spells of the wizard schools. For example fireball should not be on the list of generic arcane spells, and instead be pure elemental/evocation.
Then I'd like only the specialist wizards having access to them. Or at least not having access to spells of the opposing schools.
Maybe instead of denying access completely would be having toned down versions, but evoker would get +2d6 extra damage on fireballs.
 

Thommy H-H

Explorer
Each class will still have its own spell list. The arcane/divine/primal thing is just a tag that will be appended to spells for the purposes of certain feats and probably other things in the future. I mean, I can imagine the Wizard will just get access to all the arcane spells, but classes aren't going to be limited to one of the lists, or some hypothetical fourth one.
 


cbwjm

Legend
I'd actually prefer the bard to select a spell list. Original bards had druid spells, 2e they had wizard spells, I'd like there to be the option to pick one or the other or even the divine list.
 


CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
"Should they" is a weird question, but they certainly could if the player and the DM wanna go that route.

Spell lists are an easy way to add versatility to spellcasters...I do it all the time, and it's a lot better than creating Yet Another Subclass just to get a little bit of flavor and versatility. In one of my campaigns a couple years ago, I let one of my players choose their Wood Elf Sorcerer's spells from the Druid list purely for flavor reasons, and it didn't wreck anything. I also let a Tiefling Ranger choose her spells from the Warlock spell list, also for flavor reasons...still didn't wreck anything.
 

Teemu

Hero
Nah. Even the PF2 occult bard is a stretch at times because the occult tradition has to incorporate the weird and Lovecraftian stuff too. A psionic bard doesn't really gel with the classic bard image.
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
While Bards are arcane casters, there's a some spells they get that Wizards and Sorcerers don't get, and a bunch of spells that Wizards and Sorcerers get but they don't get (without having to use Magical Secrets). I know in Pathfinder 2, Bards use a separate common "Occult" spell list.

So maybe make the Bard use a "psionic" or "mysticism" spell list, and leave that spell list open for a Psion class that comes in later if it doesn't show up in the new PHB. There's some overlap between a Bard's spell and bunch of things Psions have done before. Especially with the emphasis on Enchantment spells, and I don't think it be too out of place if a Bard could eventually mind blast, they already can break things with thunder/sonic spells.

I could see issue would being with more traditionally niche psionic powers/spells like a bunch psychometabolism and metacreation, but those things don't match most people's conception of psionics unless you dig deep into Yogis and concepts like Tulpas (aka Astral Constructs).

"Should Bards use the common ‘Psionic’ spell list instead of Arcane?"

Yup.

The Bard simply is psionic.

Telepathic mind magic, psychic prescience, psychometabolic healing, psychometabolic shapeshifting, psychoportation, even telekinetic sound manipulation.

The Bard is a Psion.
 

Yaarel

Mind Mage
No. Psionics usually don't use verbal components. And if anyone is known for using their mouths, it would be bards. :p
The Bard doesnt use verbal for a spell component.

The voice is more like a means to focus mental intention. Not sure what its mechanics would be if casting innately psionically.
 

Vael

Legend
Huh.

On the one hand, this makes sense, Bards are often casting enchantments and illusions and such, which does fit thematically with Psionics.

OTOH, Psionics is not generally flavoured as a performance and vocal magical technique. Well ... dunno Jedi and Bene Gesserit still speak when they are using their abilities.

I remain on the fence, it's an interesting idea that I can see both sides of.
 

One thing about this idea is that using something from a certain spell list does not dictate how one casts spells using that spell list, look at the Artificer and the Wizard. They're both supposed to use the Arcane spell list. The wizard may put their hands in certain gestures (called Mudras in some places) uttering words derived from the Language Primeval. While an Artificer mixes some chemicals together or adjusts the dials on a pistol as part of a spellcasting.

Theoretically nothing says that if a Bard and a Psion use the same common spells, that they're going to cast them the same.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

100% that gnome
Yeah, I cannot imagine WotC giving wizards and sorcerers Vicious Mockery by default and giving bards Fireball and Cone of Cold. At that point, the differences between the arcane classes would be stupidly minor.

They'll almost certainly have some sort of spell list.
 


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