Should clerics use raise dead scrolls from another faith?

Any magic item created by a cleric is created from and for the glory of their patron deity. As such, deity, alignment, etc is all built in at the time of casting / creating. And, yes, this can make things a bit difficult at times, as using a scroll utilizes the power of that deity - and thus may call said deity's attention to the party - or potentially anger the cleric's own deity.

A cleric using a magic item specifically created by another religion is in effect saying that they do not trust in their deity to protect / guide them, that they believe this other deity is better (even if for only that one specific situation). Deities have been known to remove their favor (and power) from such clerics - the only exceptions being if the magic item's empowering deity is an ally of the deity of the cleric using the item. Deities in alliance will typically allow their clerics to use items created by / for clerics of their allies. But if a cleric dares use a magic item of a deity enemical to their own patron, then they have a good chance of falling from favor.

Most deities tend to be allied with several others in various pantheons, so the restriction is not as severe as it might at first sound.

Curatives can be created by any cleric - and some deities are even willing to allow their clerics to sale such to non-followers, for a price (and either given freely or for a reduced price to followers of their faith).

On the other hand, divine magic items - other than basic curatives - are often rare unless they specifically deal with the portfolio of a deity. For instance, in a core game using core deities, only a cleric of Kord - who has the portfolio of strength - is likely to make a magic item that enhances strength. If a cleric of a non-Kord deity were to make such an item - in effect create an item based upon the portfolio of a deity other than their own - their deity would probably take offense.

And such an item - created by a cleric of the appropriate deity - would be viewed by clerics of that religion as holy. It would not be casually handed out, let alone sold the highest bidder. They would wish to be certain that it was shown appropriate respect and honor, not desecrated (magically or non-magically) by a non-follower. It will be kept in a sacred shrine within the temple, carefully guarded and prayed over to ensure its sanctity continues for many years to come. If it is handed out, it will be done so to one that their deity has shown obvious signs of favoring, for the glory of their deity and their religion. A great warrior, long known to have greatly honored Kord, might be allowed use of the strength increasing item before undertaking a dangerous quest for the sake of a community of devout followers of Kord, especially if the high priest of the temple where the item is kept has had dreams from Kord or seen recent signs suggesting Kord's approval / favor for allowing the item out of the temple.
 

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This is a really cool area to explore.

In my own campaign, one particular deity (a god of death and wealth) has clerics that handle most of this. Quite a few others don't particularly like this deity or his clerics and so will go out of their way to avoid being raised by members of this deity's church. This has been a fun and involved background for my campaign.

Interestingly, because the god in question is a god of wealth and death, his clerics have the best prices on raising folks. And, to make things really tempting, people raised by this deity, if they agree to a conversion (while the soul is still waiting to return) suffer no penalties from the spells used to raise them.

;)

Dave
 

You know, given that the deities are very active aspects of FR, you'd think there'd be some official or semi-official take on this somewhere. FWIW, though, I'm running a Realms campaign, but I've not been too particular about priests from one religion casting for someone of another (though prices may vary! ;) ). Don't think I've actually given out any divine scrolls yet, though, so I'll have to think about this.
 

EvilPheemy said:
As written, a scroll is a scroll is a scroll, without any sort of alignment or influence from the cleric who scribed it in the first place.

Hmmmm...a scroll has a weapon of the deity spell, what weapon appears? Is is the creator's deity? Is it the caster's deity? What if it's a non-religious rogue with Use Magic Device using the scroll?

While this may seem to be a rules oriented question (because it is), the answer gives a strong clue to this dilemma.
 
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Glyfair said:
Hmmmm...a scroll has a weapon of the deity spell, what weapon appears? Is is the creator's deity? Is it the caster's deity? What if it's a non-religious rogue with Use Magic Device using the scroll?
QUOTE]

Hadn't thought of that point - The fact that Rogues & a few other classes without any connection to a god can use a divine scroll would pretty much imply the magic is written in to the scroll rather than being powered by the caster...

As for assigning faiths to scrolls, its been fairly simple to assume that healing spells come from the goddess of healing, lightning scrolls from god of storms, strength from god of war etc etc though you could always roll on a pantheon table if you get some random treasure. If you end up rolling a nasty evil god its effectively a cursed item - you can always roll again if you think you're penalising clerics too much.

I think the pantheon argument makes sense as well - restricting scrolls to ONLY that faith realy does limit the potential for picking up and using loot so maybe a restriction that you cannot / should not use an item from an opposed faith is simpler to impose

I guess the only difference it should make in the campaign is that divine items become a little rarer relative to arcane items, unless there usage is always in the faiths interest (its difficult to do too much damage with a healing scroll unless you count paper cuts, simliarly evil gods wouldn't be too bothered about letting curse scrolls loose in the empire....) and that makes them almost certainly specific gifts rather than general saleable items.
 

Well since your tagline said should, then NO is the answer maybe :D

I agree with others that it would require a little more work to do this right. However, I don't think its as hard as others mention either. First off IMHO, gods of death and evil gods don't have raise dead spells, scrolls, etc. The reason I see is that gods of death believe dead is dead and you don't get second chances. Gods of Evil find that if you failed in your task then you are better to them as an undead minion (mind not mindless).

The other gods would probably look upon it as not role to help raise someone not of their faith and so I would increase the chance to fail or make it take longer or have the cleric who wants to cast it realize that he must first find a cleric of the diety in question to get it blessed or somesuch.

As for spiritual weapon or the like, I would have it produce the diety's weapon of the scrolls author. Again assuming the scroll has writing that says produce your weapon of divine justice, o lord of [whatever you are].

Bottom line is are scrolls written in celestial or diabolical and the wording is neutral? Or would it be written to bring forth that diety's magnificance and power so that the diety or his/her representatives would know to respond.

I don't believe you need to do this with every scroll but you could make it work for the scrolls of dead NPC's in the tower of the evil lich lord of the worshipper of the foul nether regions.
 


If you start assigning faith to scrolls you could continue the thought with assigning a specific mage to wizard scrolls as well. (Only usable by the mage that created it.)

IMO, though, this would bog the game down and add a level of complexity that would be less fun for the players. Suddely the "treasure" is not a treasure at all. *Yawn*
 

It's an interesting idea, but probably adds too much complication to things. It's usually going to make what should normally be a very valuable bit of party treasure into something almost worthless except as something to sell.

Most campaigns I've seen, the cleric worshipping in the same pantheon might not have much trouble. For example, if Seles, Suta, and Rathene are all in the same pantheon (say they are brother and sisters), then a follower of Suta shouldn't have much problem using a scroll written by an arch priest of Rathene. Unless of course you have a Greek-like pantheon and if Rathene happens to be angry at Suta at the time because she stole his horses, then the cleric of Suta might find himself turned to stone, or his life force used to bring back his friend, etc. Trying to use the scroll written by a hostile pantheon would be tantamount to a death sentence, or worse.

Clerical scrolls probably should be faith-specific, but it's really just too much to keep track of except for some imaginative cursed item. (Yes, the scroll you got from the lich queen brought your friend back to life.. with the soul of a fiend in there as well).
 

DaveMage said:
If you start assigning faith to scrolls you could continue the thought with assigning a specific mage to wizard scrolls as well. (Only usable by the mage that created it.)

IMO, though, this would bog the game down and add a level of complexity that would be less fun for the players. Suddely the "treasure" is not a treasure at all. *Yawn*

I agree it would bog the game down unless it was done on just a few scrolls of obvious origin. I mean the BBEG could have got the scrolls off previous do-gooders that helped him obtain his rise to pre-eminence :eek:

But, while I can see Divine magic as coming from different planes and languages(not 3.x obviously this is a flashback to 1e-2e days); I see wizards as using the same script but using different spell components to make the spell go off. I won't get into the whole mages suck debate, one of the things I do is have my Wizards use a Dragon article on making their spells unique to them by "themes".

This way "new" spells can be had and again not 3.x but 1e-2e, wizards find their spells not go look'em up at leveling time :o
 

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