Should companies bother with RPGs?

[JoeGKushner]

Well, after seeing a post about how some gamers are buyers and how some could play for years off a single book (Worlds Largest Dungeon, Shackled City, etc...), I was wondering...

Should companies continue to work with RPGs instead of doing things like fiction, console gaming, computer gaming, board games, etc...?

I'm surprised for instance that Green Ronin hasn't done more card games. Their one, I think it's Monsters, Torches and Pitchforks, is a great little gem. Mongoose seems to be moving into miniatures. Atlas has tons of stuff like Dungeoneer, etc...

So should companies just put out a few premium RPG products a year and let their energies go in other directons?

 

[Truth Seeker]

Well, after seeing a post about how some gamers are buyers and how some could play for years off a single book (Worlds Largest Dungeon, Shackled City, etc...), I was wondering...

Should companies continue to work with RPGs instead of doing things like fiction, console gaming, computer gaming, board games, etc...?

I'm surprised for instance that Green Ronin hasn't done more card games. Their one, I think it's Monsters, Torches and Pitchforks, is a great little gem. Mongoose seems to be moving into miniatures. Atlas has tons of stuff like Dungeoneer, etc...

So should companies just put out a few premium RPG products a year and let their energies go in other directons?

Speaking from a player's side...it depends on those in the market, on what they want.

For companies, it will not hurt to expand into old/new areas either. It is a common pratice, to keep the staff energize with new ideas. But on the same note, as noted with other threads, like too much Overwhelming Stuff...saturation has hit a high point right now. Even with me. I do enjoy reading other people thoughts/ideas on a race, monster, or settings. But here is the glib...I can't use it all. Therefore it comes down to what I need to use for a game, in the long run.

This has become a quandary for publishers...people are getting picky, on several levels, and the biggest foe to tackle is pricing on the material.

Is it worth the investment and time to have...in the long run.

For the companies themselves, yes...should divert to other areas, but should not lose sight of what made them memorable, from their humble beginnings.

We are in a techo age, where now...finding what you want online, can sometimes outstrips a book being made by well-known publisher. Sometimes you can get the same thing, half or third of the price.

Back from before, before the internet became that prevalent in our lives...waiting on a new book, was nail-biting and exciting.

Now, catching wind of it, before it goes to print, has taken some of the nerve jumping out of it...some, but it will be slowly going away at some point.

Companies now face, we want to know now, instead back then, we waited on hand and foot, at your local store and word of mouth.

Times have change...and companies have to change with them.

There is no choice in that matter.

 

[Greatwyrm]

I can see a number of reasons I wouldn't try that.

1. I think the price point on those books is awfully high for what the market usually supports. I don't know if you could sell them in sufficient numbers to make up for the sales you'd get from a higher volume of less expensive titles.

2. If you only put out two or three big ticket books in a year, you're in really bad shape if one of them flops. If you have a larger catalog of titles, you'll probably be in better shape to survive the occasional turkey than if you were relying on one title to provide a quarter's worth of revenue by itself.

3. --speculation-- It doesn't seem that games like traditional card games or board games sell as well as rpgs, unless you get a really big hit. I don't have hard figures, but I'd think the production cost on rpgs is usually smaller (as a percentage) than other types of games.

4. I wouldn't want to move too far from my core business. Nobody gets into rpgs to get rich. They do it because they want to write games. The ones that hang around long enough to have a discussion like this are probably good at it. They may not be as good at writing fiction, writing or supervising the production of a computer game, or other such ventures. I think I do okay writing my own stuff, but there's little chance I'd tackle anything like that.

Plus, it just takes away time from actually doing what you do best. I think Steve Jackson (GURPS) finally/recently hired a business manager for SJ Games, because he just didn't have time to actually make new games of his own any more. In a small operation (and even big game companies are pretty small) there may just not be time enough to devote to one or two big products and some alternate ones. I mean, how big is that Ptolus book Monte Cook's been working on and it's just about all he did for a year?

 

[Crothian]

No

I don't care for consule games, card game, minature...I want my RPG!!!!

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Well, after seeing a post about how some gamers are buyers and how some could play for years off a single book (Worlds Largest Dungeon, Shackled City, etc...), I was wondering...

Should companies continue to work with RPGs instead of doing things like fiction, console gaming, computer gaming, board games, etc...?

I'm surprised for instance that Green Ronin hasn't done more card games. Their one, I think it's Monsters, Torches and Pitchforks, is a great little gem. Mongoose seems to be moving into miniatures. Atlas has tons of stuff like Dungeoneer, etc...

So should companies just put out a few premium RPG products a year and let their energies go in other directons?

Yeah I think if they value thier continued survival and want to actually make a decent profit they should definitely branch out to other things. I've said this before, personally I only buy a select few products from a select few companies (Malhavoc, Green Ronin and Necromancer Games) and then only PDF's (Ptolus will be an acception tothis rule).

I just recently joined/formed a group here in NY. As DM I limited things to just core books and realize with the amount of D20 suppliments that I own alone, I'd probably never have to buy another book ever again. I also find it a little earier to get people involved in playing board games and Miniature games than I do RPG's so that could have something to do with my answer as well.

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

I certainly see what you are saying. I think agree with you, JoeG, in the sense that you get me to buy an RPG and that is all I need (as a player). However, if your company puts out some other little game, it has a good chance of getting my money, as well (and if you put out a t-shirt, or a neat dice bag, etc.)

Form a profit point of view, I think you're on to something.

 

[JoeGKushner]

It was Necromancer Games Wilderlands that got me thinking of this. I mean it's huge. Outside of some issue with the maps that I'm hearing about on their message board, I've heard nothing but good things about it.

However, for someone like me, I still haven't played Dawnforge, Iron Kingdoms, Diamond Throne, or other settings. While I'll probably wind up getting it as I own a lot of original Judges Guild stuff, I'm certailny not the only one going... "Do I really need this. Is there something else Necromancer could be making to take my money that might actually get used. Like a card game about capturing Orcus or a board game?"

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

However, for someone like me, I still haven't played Dawnforge, Iron Kingdoms, Diamond Throne, or other settings.

For the record, Iron Kingdoms rocks.

 

[Einan]

Heck, I'd buy a "Pants Orcus!" game. It'd be a sin not to.

 

[adwyn]

All of this discussion makes me wonder if the business models for RPGs isn't bass ackwards.

Much as the D&D computer and book sales have exceeded the actual game's, I have begun to suspect that the key to making money might be developing the intellectual properties related to RPGs. After all only the DM is likely to buy a setting while several more players are then exposed to it.

Novels are one way to tap into the players, poorly conceived player option manuals another, but overall it seems like their should be more that a company could do to reach the non DM dollars.

All of this is speculation by an industry outsider of course, but as a businessman were I to look at an RPG company the lack of "synergy" in the intellectual properties is amazing. A good example is a microbrewery I own a share of has "paraphanlia" (shirts, hats, etc) sales that account for 15-20% of the gross annual sales, and those are things the big guys give away.