Should Dungeon and Polyheadron be in the same magazine

[rounser]

So, what did you read that i missed? What's so inflamatory/disrespectful in Erik's post? I'm genuinely baffled.

Agreed, I don't know what they're talking about.

All that Erik said amounted to, "here are the realities of our situation, and if you don't like them, stiff biccies". No-one was "treated like a jerk", in my estimation. You may not like the message, but shooting the messenger isn't going to help.

 

[Creamsteak]

Just as a comment, only vaguely related to this threads subject:

I want bound Dungeon/Dragon/Polyhedron. I guess I could pay a bindery, or do it myself, but I'm seriously considering binding a handful of mags together. Some of them are worth saving as such, and unless they have an intention of releasing a CD with the older mags, it's my main option I guess...

 

[Piratecat]

Kamosa, I'm afraid you totally lost me. Erik didn't come off as a jerk in that post; quite the reverse, actually. He was explaining how the business works. If I squint I can see how you'd read that as condescending, but it clearly wasn't meant that way.

 

[Belen]

Kamosa, I'm afraid you totally lost me. Erik didn't come off as a jerk in that post; quite the reverse, actually. He was explaining how the business works. If I squint I can see how you'd read that as condescending, but it clearly wasn't meant that way.

Actually, I took it that way at first, but I flamed Paizo in the "Paizo Bites" thread, so I felt he had some justification for being peeved at me.

The underscores are what made it come off so bad.

However, I will say that Paizo seems to have a really bad printer. While not knowing the prices involved, it sounds as if they are being overcharged. The printer also seems to have issues with quality control.

No clue what type od contract Paizo is under with them, although I think they could get better service with Cadmus or Sheridan, especially Sheridan.

No idea when Paizo will send out another RFP for printing services, but I think they could do better.

Again, I would have to see the actual numbers, but it sounds off from their descriptions.

 

[kamosa]

Kamosa, I'm afraid you totally lost me. Erik didn't come off as a jerk in that post; quite the reverse, actually. He was explaining how the business works. If I squint I can see how you'd read that as condescending, but it clearly wasn't meant that way.

Agreed to a point. In customer service perception is reality. Maybe he could work on not posting in such a way that sounds like you're engauging in the normal back and forth flaming that happens on a message board. When you say things like "You don't understand, <b>Unfortunatly</b>" and "lack of faith", and specifically quote other peoples posts, it sounds like your slamming them and have just a little bit holier than thou attitude. Not to mention that he responeded with a post about advertising rates to a comment about printing costs.

If it was just some other person on the board it wouldn't even register, but to go after someone specifically when you are acting like a represetative of a company is in poor taste IMHO.

 

[RFisher]

You don't have a very good grasp on how we do business, unfortunately. Our rates for a full-color ad are considerably more expensive than $900 per page. Advertisers _will_ pay more for color. A color magazine _will_ get better distribution (on average), which means it's getting to more stores. Further, there's a lot of evidence that a consumer is more likely to purchase a color magazine once he's got it in his hands.

Have you considered that Dungeon might be better off keeping its focus, keeping costs low, & serving a smaller but dedicated customer base rather than trying quite so hard to increase readership? (Please read that as an honest question without attitude.)

(Personally, I think the print magazine business these days--for whatever reasons--can't support the niches it used to. Perhaps an online venture could serve Dungeon's role better these days. SJG's Pyramid is doing OK, but I think it might do better to break from the magazine model more. Likewise, an online analogue to Dungeon should really seek to take advantage of the medium change rather just try to reproduce the magazine model online.)

 

[Erik Mona]

Folks,

I wasn't trying to flame Belen (dispite his cold pricklies in the "Paizo Bites" thread). I was just trying to say that the magazine experience he had didn't match the way we do business at Paizo. Granted, I ought to toss around words like "unfortunately" a little less often. . .

I'm actually _glad_ to see so much emotion (even if it's disappointment, for now) regarding the magazine. People really love Dungeon and Dragon magazines, and have a strong connection to their past and stake in their future. It's my job to ensure that that future is long and bright, and part of that is listening to the folks who aren't so pleased in addition to the ones who like what we're doing.

No matter where you fall on the scale, there are two upcoming issues that I'd like everyone to check out and even post responses here to let us know how we've done. The first is Dungeon #112, our 30th Anniversary of D&D issue in which the entire magazine is taken up by Maure Castle, a massive four-level 1st edition style dungeon written by Robert J. Kuntz and Gary Gygax (with adaptation to 3.5 and additional material by James Jacobs and yours truly). It's a huge experiment and a special possibly once-in-a-lifetime event, so I'm looking forward to seeing the response.*

The second is Dungeon #114, which I predict will be the subject of a several-page thread here within days of it hitting the stands.

I'm watching and listening, folks. This is a critical time in Dungeon's history, and your feedback (positive and negative) is certainly playing a key role in shaping the magazine's future.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dungeon Magazine

* Yes, I'm aware that I posted something to the effect of "Dungeon will never again have only one adventure in a single issue" last year, but we decided to make an exception for the 30th Anniversary. I'm hoping that the epic nature of the adventure, the stunning art by James Ryman and Aaron St. Goddard, and a 16-page monster appendix featuring new critters and classics like the nabassu and shoosuva will make up for us contradicting my earlier declaration.

 

[woodelf]

Also, let me re-emphasize and clarify my previous statement:
I know the OTHERS (Time, Rolling Stone, etc.) are mass market magazines with a BROAD APPEAL, but I bet that's what Paizo is striving for too.
I mean that Paizo wants Dungeon/Poly to be of broader appeal to gamers, not the public at large.

If that were the case, wouldn't a broader selection of articles (some all-crunch, some all-fluff, some essays about RPing, some newsreporting, some setting-specific, etc.) be the best solution, rather than narrowing the focus to a couple specific things? For that matter, i'd love Dragon to try to be more of a general-interest RPG magazine with broader appeal--more akin to Rolling Stone, as you suggest. But that'd require (1) D&D players being willing to buy a magazine that had content for other RPGs and (2) non-D&D players being willing to buy a magazine that had conten for D&D. Both of those used to be true, and neither seems to be true any more. But i know i dropped Dragon when it dropped everything else.

 

[Arnwyn]

Mate, by saying it that way you sound as though you are representative of *all* Dungeon/Poly consumers.

Then you'd be wrong.

If he's "misguided" at all it's in reference to your personal preference.

That's correct - with an explanation why I feel the way I do.

In fact that statement is, to me, pretty damned rude.

Oh? Then it's time to grow some thicker skin.

I don't write in the module; I write in an accompanying lecture-pad. I don't have a problem in cross-referencing any changes I have made with my notepad.

With this admission, forgive me if I don't put much weight on your opinion of the utility of the maps.

The maps are difficult to see? Not for me. Perhaps the issue is to do with either the lighting or your eyesight?

Uh-huh. I don't think so.

Not everybody is the same as you, Arnwyn.

Never said "everybody" was. Easy does it there.

I don't think Paizo have pulled these statements out of thin air. I am certain that they have done the research, and read threads like this one which crop up every other month on ENWorld and other D&D-related boards. I would say that their opinion is undoubtedly informed and based on the opinions of the larger proportion of Dungeon/Poly readers.

I certainly hope that was the case. (Though I have yet to see anyone explain exactly how they are utilitarian.)

For me, the continued publishing of useful/quality adventures for a reasonable price is what will keep me buying issues of Dungeon.

Absolutely.

 

[Emirikol]

Go Dungeon !

but we decided to make an exception for the 30th Anniversary. I'm hoping that the epic nature of the adventure, the stunning art by James Ryman and Aaron St. Goddard, and a 16-page monster appendix featuring new critters and classics like the nabassu and shoosuva will make up for us contradicting my earlier declaration.

Erik:
Sounds yummy! Go Dungeon

Jay H