Should FLGS have Edition Bias?

[Mournblade94]

I don't have a problem with it actually. The sales person needs to lead with something.

I work in the FLGS over the summers. This summer, I always directed people to Pathfinder first. If they did not seem interested, then I would follow up with 4e. Standard procedure. I was pretty good at selling Pathfinder to people.

If someone asked about 4e I discussed its strengths. If someone asked me to compare Pathfinder to 4e I was biased towards pathfinder, unless the customer was younger. In that case I would talk up 4e, since they were new to the hobby. In no case did I block a sale of 4e.

Really I see nothing wrong with it.

IN fact most times, customers that are not sure ask for your opinion.

There would be a problem if a person approached the register with a 4e book, and THEN I tried to sell them Pathfinder instead. That never happened.

Now I am back to working my job that pays well, so I am not behind the counter. Since most of the workers there are comic or warhammer folks, they still ask me to recommed games to new customers. Without fail I recommend Pathfinder.

 

[jaerdaph]

JHe barely talked about 4E, only mentioning that he'd tried it for a few months and lost interest in running it.

On the other hand, I probably wouldn't want someone with limited or no experience with a product trying to sell it to me. At best if I was still interested, they should get someone else in the store more familiar with the product to explain it to me if I wanted to know more.

Personally, I've loved my experiences in a FLGS where the employees or owner are excited about some particular new game based on their own play experiences that I might not have seen or heard of yet, and these were usually non-D&D type games. Sometimes they even made a sale.

You probably did the right thing not speaking out in their conversation with the game store employee - I really believe that bringing up edition-related discussions and perceived edition bias would only scare off casual gamers who might not be familiar with the context of the so-called "edition wars". Perhaps next time you could strike up a conversation with them after the salesperson steps away and let them know *your* experiences with 4e (much like the employee was sharing his experiences with Pathfinder) and why you like the game. Keep it positive, and recruit and retain more gamers.

 

[OnlineDM]

I think it's hard to work in a game store and not have opinions about the various games that are available. As a matter of fact, I would say that it's part of the job description to have such opinions!

That being said, I think a smart approach in this situation would be:

• Listen to what the players are familiar with and are looking for (they know 3.5 in this case)
• Lay out the various options in broad strokes ("Well, D&D has moved on to 4th Edition now, and we carry those products, but there's also a game called Pathfinder that's more closely tied to the 3.5 rules you're familiar with. Plus there is also game X and Y and Z.")
• THEN, assuming the customers don't immediately gravitate toward one option or the other, get into your recommendation ("Personally, I've had a lot more fun with Pathfinder, and I'll tell you why, but I can also say that a lot of people do play 4th Edition, too.")

Tabletop roleplaying gaming as a hobby is like some other hobbies in that, even if your job is to sell the game, you have a personal incentive to get more players interested in the version of the hobby that you're into. That way, you have more potential people to enjoy the hobby with in the future (and these games really do require other people in order to be much fun). Being totally unbiased is unrealistic, and probably not necessary. It's good to hear about a game from an enthusiastic fan!

All that said, I agree that it makes good business sense to at least say a few words about the other game that sells really well and that these players might be interested in - but if the salesperson doesn't do it, you probably did the right thing as a fellow customer by letting it slide. From your description it sounds like he mentioned 4e enough to cover his bases, so I have no problem with the approach.

 

[WheresMyD20]

I had an interesting experience when I purchase the Castle Ravenloft boardgame. My normal FLGS was out of stock, so I had to go to the one at the mall. I'm not a big fan of malls, and I was there with my wife, so I really just wanted to buy the game and go home.

The sales clerk (possibly the store owner) was really, really pushy about getting me to sign up for D&D Essentials. I could tell that the guy was really excited about 4e. I told him a couple of times that I've tried 4e already but I preferred the older editions. I'm just thinking to myself please ring this up so I can go home.

He then gave me the speech about Essentials trying to go back to an older style and so on. I'm now hoping the guy will just hurry up with the cash register because I'm starting to get annoyed with his hard sell. This guy just wouldn't take "no" for an answer. I told him I really wasn't interested in trying 4e again.

So, he finally gives up on pushing 4e and then says that there's also a Pathfinder group and that Pathfinder is like D&D 3.75. Now, he clearly doesn't seem as excited about Pathfinder, but I guess he assumes that by "older editions" I mean 3e. I'm wondering how long it's going to take him to finish ringing up this one item on his cash register.

He continues to ramble on about how Pathfinder "cleaned up" 3.5 and I have to stop him and tell him "no, I prefer editions before 3e". I'm hoping that he will finally get the hint and give up on the endless sales pitch.

At that point, he stopped dead in his speech and looked at me as if I was insane. He stops working the cash register and asks me, in a very condescending voice, how anyone could want to play an edition older than 3e. Now, I know this particular store doesn't stock any Castles & Crusades, HackMaster, or any other "old-school" product, but I can't believe the attitude this guy is giving me.

He then starts with "I've been playing D&D for 30 years and the game now is much better than it used to be..." I didn't want to get into an edition debate, but at that point my patience was gone and I said, "I don't care... I'm not interested. I've tried the new stuff. All the skills, feats, boardgame-combat, and heavy rules they added killed it for me."

At that point he *finally* finished ringing up my Castle Ravenloft. He mumbled something to the effect of "...the new edition is clearly much better, but I guess some people only care about pretending to be their character, the role-playing aspect and all that..." Anyway, that's not what I meant at all and I don't think he understood (or really wanted to understand) one word of what I had just said. But, at that point, I had my game, I was *done* with this guy, and I headed straight for the door.

Yeah, there's some edition bias (and a lot of pushy attitude) at that store. I doubt I'll be going back there anytime soon. Thankfully, it's not the only FLGS in town.

 

[Kzach]

This store is just continuing a long-standing and fine tradition of employing clueless geeks who couldn't sell woollen mittens to freezing eskimos. Like most stores who do this, they will eventually either fail and close, or realise their stupidity and employ an actual salesperson.

Three guesses as to which one I think is more likely.

 

[Imperialus]

Of course some places, have 'edition bias'. Just like some people do. Some places don't... Just as an example. Back in 2007 a friend of mine who's big into the Warhammer scene told me about a special (completely unofficial) event that one of the GW's was running in the area and asked if I could help out. I was perplexed, since I hadn't played 40K since 3rd edition at least, and most my Warhammer experience was from 2nd. The manager of the store however wanted to set up a "Rogue Trader" event (in celebration of the 20th anniversary of it's release) for the kids though so they could see where the game came from. I ended up dusting off my old RT era minis, hauling my rulebook out of storage and spending a day GMing RT games and showing off my old minis.

 

[JoeGKushner]

And asking cusstomers if they'd care for a playtest is always good too.

One things Games Plus does a lot of that I wish I could get out more for is the miniature gaming because they usually have someone who is demoing something ranging from Zack who used to run the hell out of Confrontation to some Mongoose fans who ran Judge Dread to the latest tabletop game that uses a computer and has some awesome looking minis with it.

While a RPG isn't exactly like a plug and play game on a console system, whenever you can let the customer see and experience it for himself, you win.

Hell, I know Games Plus must've sold quite a few of the Essential books today just based on the people I saw pawing through them at the game tables during the 9/11 Gameday bits.

 

[AngryMojo]

This thread reminds me of the basic problem of the FLGS. Game stores are usually owned and run by gamers, not business people.

Gamers frequently have edition bias, and will push products that they enjoy simply because they enjoy it. They tend to be passionate about the hobby, and they tend to be intolerant of those who have differing opinions on games. Gamers will keep old books on the shelves out of nostalgia, and to seem like they have a better collection of books.

Businessmen won't have edition bias. They'll sell whatever they can, and if they're good they'll sell someone the product that fits the customer's needs. A good businessman will push any edition that's currently in print, because it's what he'll be able to sell six months from now. A good businessman will clear out backstock, and if a product has been sitting on the shelves for six months, will discount it to clear space for product that's moving.

 

[Derren]

Or maybe it was something mundane like having a better profit margins on Pathfinder than D&D instead of an edition war...

 

[Henry]

My answer would be "in what context?" They have a right to push whatever they want; if they want to be fair to customers and their bottom line, though, they need to at least become familiar with product they're selling and its strengths and weaknesses.

If I were in business as an FLGS, and I were "in it to win it", then I'd get familiar with everything, even the latest fad games (right now seems like the German Board game stuff still has the greatest headway to my untrained eye) and check into the popularity of new things I heard customers mention, even if they seem silly to me. (As I get older, I'm perfectly aware of my biases that most things that younger gamers prefer will sound silly to me at first. ) I'd also keep my ear to the internet buzz to see what's hot. In other words, do what most old-fashioned salespeople do, using the tools of the modern era, because if I don't, like 50% of all small businesses, I'd become another statistic.