D&D 4E Should hit points continue to be generated randomly in 4e?

[GhostTiger]

How likely do you think it is that another significant part of the allure of "random" stats and hp is that the houserules you and everyone else add function to give you a very, very high chance of above average stats and hit points?

Er -- that's what I said.

 

[Ravellion]

Back in 2e my character was a super tough dwarf. 2 fighters in our group, and mine had 18 CON! At first level, we got max hp, and I definitely had an edge over that flimsy elf with 8 CON (no penalty in 2e), with 14 vs 10 hp.

After 3 more levels though, I had rolled a 2,3 and a 4. The elf? 8,9,8. His hit points? 35. Mine? 31. Of course, the Elf had a better DEX too, so he didn't get hit as much. Lesson learnt: if hit points are rolled, don't bother with CON. Put your high score in STR or DEX. If you then roll crappy hit points, you'll die, and get to start a new character that isn't nerfed for no reason whatsoever, or even exactly contrary to the design choice made by the player. If you have a high CON, you could roll crap and still live, while your other stats would be no better off.

Some people argue: "But in the long run it all evens out!". Well if it does, why bother rolling in the first place? Get your random rolls out of my hit points!

 

[Ravellion]

4e shouldn't force the DM to use one method over another, but instead give the DM options to let him pick which one he is most comfortable with for his or her campaign. Such as in my gaming group, the DMs have decided to use the method that the character or monster, PC or NPC, gains maximum hit points for his or her hit dice for the first thee levels (or hit dice) then one half the hit die + 1 per level or hit die there after, applying any Constitution modifiers or hit points gained by feats.

And do spell casters still use damage spells? And if they do, why?!

"Hmmmm.... everything takes about 4 or 5 fireballs to kill, instead of 2 or 3... better switch to save or sleep/paralyze/die kind of spells"

That is another problem with random rolled hit die rolling, as mentioned earlier, most groups do use a random system, but don't balance it with the existing hp expectation that's already in the system.

 

[wayne62682]

Death to randomness! Take it from experience, it's no fun to have a badass character and roll crappy for hit points. Nothing should be random when it comes to generating/leveling up characters. It should entirely be based on player choice. If streamlining HP so Fighter-types will always have more hit points than non-fighters is "cookie-cutter", then there's a bigger issues somewhere.

Every group I've played in has used some kind of house rule to help with HP. Most notably was where you had three re-rolls that you could use, and the roll didn't count if you rolled lower than average+1. So 9 times out of 10 you'd end up eventually rolling max, or close to max, and even if you didn't and you used up your re-rolls you'd get Avg+1.

I'm firmly in the no random hit points/ability scores for 4E camp.

 

[MarkB]

I don't know, some of the most fun I had was with a character who was a fighter/cleric (this is second edition) with only a 7 Constitution who never rolled more than 1 for the hit points. I may not have lasted long in every fight, but dang it it was fun.

Sucks to be him when a fireball goes off. Against a level-appropriate opponent who rolls average damage, that's pretty much instant death on a successful Reflex save.

 

[Lanefan]

To sum up: What we have here is the classic law (fixed) vs. chaos (random) argument.

Assuming in all cases internal consistency within the game (i.e. the DM isn't changing the rules on the fly), we get:

Some people like a more "lawful" game, where things in the players' realm are as predictable as possible e.g. fixed hit points, full choice of class-race, point-buy or arrayed stats, etc.; and where things in the DM's realm hopefully follow somewhat closely to the structured rules of engagement e.g. proper CR/EL levels, proper wealth-by-level, regular level advancement, and so on.

Some people like a more "chaotic" game, where a player's inbound idea for a character may well be thrown a curveball by the dice (for good or bad) and many things are generated randomly e.g. hit points, base stats, initial wealth, etc.; and where the DM by and large throws CR/EL and wealth guidelines out the window shortly after puck-drop, and the PCs are pretty much left on their own and had better be ready to run like hell.

Call me chaotic.

Lanefan

 

[CleverNickName]

I prefer random. The game would start being too cookie-cutter if random hit points (and random ability scores) were taken out.

What he said.

 

[wayne62682]

What he said.

And yet nobody can cite real reasons why having fixed hit points is "cookie-cutter". The ability score argument I can at least agree upon in theory (although I am against that too) but, as someone else said, if hit points are being used to determine uniqueness in your game, then something is very, very wrong.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

To sum up: What we have here is the classic law (fixed) vs. chaos (random) argument.

Except that I'm all for fixed, and I'm chaotic!

 

[RFisher]

Well, I--for one--am not going to try to justify enjoying rolling for hp beyond saying that it's fun. I can't imagine I would've have included such a thing in the game if I'd designed it. (Except for it now being well established.) Yet, I can't deny that I enjoy it.

I'd even like to someday get the chance to play under a DM that doesn't feel the need to soften it with a house rule.

That's the rub. Almost everyone is gung-ho for going with random rolls but then have to add in house rules so that the roll isn't TOO random.

Doesn't have to be all or nothing, does it? A person can prefer random, but less-random, right?

Nothing else involved in leveling up a character is random, so why have this one little thing hang on?

Again, it doesn't have to be all or nothing, does it? A person can like having this one little bit of randomness, right?

Death to randomness!

& no more attack, save, or skill rolls either: Take 10 for everything! & all attacks do average damage!

(Which, actually, I think could be fun if done right.)