Should I let my player off the hook? (long)
- Thread starter El Ravager
- Start date
Herremann the Wise
First Post
Hi El Ravager,
My initial thought was to involve the shady aristocrat. Shady Aristocrats particularly shady ones with a mite of intelligence and cunning don't like to have loose ends lying around. At the moment, there is someone lying in a cell who can connect him to the murder. I would say such a shady aristocrat would find some way to finish Delzar off - incompetent fool that he was.
You then have two choices:
- Allow natural justice to take place - either through a guard avenging him or some type of formal execution.
- Have an assassin sent if the locals won't do the job.
This then presents you with two further options in each case:
- You can railroad the adventure into Delzar dying by some means or
- More interestingly, you can try to kill him but leave the door open so he can play Delzar out of the pickle. What he then does with the character is up to him. He can then relinquish the character to NPC status or he can try and reintroduce himself into the party.
Tell me your thoughts.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
My initial thought was to involve the shady aristocrat. Shady Aristocrats particularly shady ones with a mite of intelligence and cunning don't like to have loose ends lying around. At the moment, there is someone lying in a cell who can connect him to the murder. I would say such a shady aristocrat would find some way to finish Delzar off - incompetent fool that he was.
You then have two choices:
- Allow natural justice to take place - either through a guard avenging him or some type of formal execution.
- Have an assassin sent if the locals won't do the job.
This then presents you with two further options in each case:
- You can railroad the adventure into Delzar dying by some means or
- More interestingly, you can try to kill him but leave the door open so he can play Delzar out of the pickle. What he then does with the character is up to him. He can then relinquish the character to NPC status or he can try and reintroduce himself into the party.
Tell me your thoughts.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
demiurge1138
Inventor of Super-Toast
Well, on the one hand, I'm tempted to agree with the majority of the ENWorlders and let him hang (I'd recommend drawing and quartering, actually). But, on the other hand, I can see an arguement for letting him escape.
The noble that wanted the fell deed done in the first place pulls some strings and gets him off on a technicality. A free man, Delzar now has to deal with the consequences of betraying his party. PC justice is even harsher sometimes than the law. Even if he doesn't get killed or kicked out by the party, then what? The party will have attracted the attention of those who want to avenge the whole mess. Maybe the allies of the dead noble hire bounty hunters to kill Delzar. Maybe the whole thing is important enough to draw the attention of demons wanting Delzar's soul, angels wanting to redeem or destroy him, and inevitables enforcing the laws of justice.
Long story short, there are all sorts of things you could do if Delzar gets out. But all of the players should be OK with it (in other words, Delzar's betrayal was just in-game, and the fellow players aren't upset). Just be prepared to use it as a plot point if he does get free.
Demiurge out.
The noble that wanted the fell deed done in the first place pulls some strings and gets him off on a technicality. A free man, Delzar now has to deal with the consequences of betraying his party. PC justice is even harsher sometimes than the law. Even if he doesn't get killed or kicked out by the party, then what? The party will have attracted the attention of those who want to avenge the whole mess. Maybe the allies of the dead noble hire bounty hunters to kill Delzar. Maybe the whole thing is important enough to draw the attention of demons wanting Delzar's soul, angels wanting to redeem or destroy him, and inevitables enforcing the laws of justice.
Long story short, there are all sorts of things you could do if Delzar gets out. But all of the players should be OK with it (in other words, Delzar's betrayal was just in-game, and the fellow players aren't upset). Just be prepared to use it as a plot point if he does get free.
Demiurge out.
CalrinAlshaw
First Post
For starters, in most midievil times nobles were the only arbiters of law. For anyone to be "tried" for their crimes, you'd have to take the suspect to the nearest such person so they could be tried for murder and treason.
Also as mentioned, this particular shady aristocrat will most likely send an assassin to clean up the mess left by Delzar. Of course, there are lots of options, but in any party (ESPECIALLY one with a paladin) committing an evil crime and then trying to frame the very members of your party would get you shunned from the group.
Anyhow, any paladin would feel obligated to drag Delzar all the way to the nearest arbiter of law and make sure Delzar is executed nice and lawfully.
Calrin Alshaw
Also as mentioned, this particular shady aristocrat will most likely send an assassin to clean up the mess left by Delzar. Of course, there are lots of options, but in any party (ESPECIALLY one with a paladin) committing an evil crime and then trying to frame the very members of your party would get you shunned from the group.
Anyhow, any paladin would feel obligated to drag Delzar all the way to the nearest arbiter of law and make sure Delzar is executed nice and lawfully.
Calrin Alshaw
Evilhalfling
Adventurer
There is no way he could get back in to the party, and he should be killed unless someone else bails him out for nefarious reasons.
I had a similar experiance - PC got jailed for incompetance rather than malice - he opened and badly resealed a private letter, tried to lie and was caught out. His lawyer was a corrupt nobleman who claimed the letter was now forged. He blamed the PC's family and seized the families Inn, putting them to death. The mistake was eventually corrected and he was released after being fined. The party - 2 monks and a paladin, refused to let him rejoin - and he vanished into the underworld. He just wasn't compentant enough to prosper.
I agree with the others that if he does escape your thief would make a better villian than PC.
I had a similar experiance - PC got jailed for incompetance rather than malice - he opened and badly resealed a private letter, tried to lie and was caught out. His lawyer was a corrupt nobleman who claimed the letter was now forged. He blamed the PC's family and seized the families Inn, putting them to death. The mistake was eventually corrected and he was released after being fined. The party - 2 monks and a paladin, refused to let him rejoin - and he vanished into the underworld. He just wasn't compentant enough to prosper.
I agree with the others that if he does escape your thief would make a better villian than PC.
BASHMAN
Basic Action Games
What you should really do
What you should really do is have the town decide to execute Lewin - Human Wizard/Cleric/Mystic Theurge. That'll teach the munchkin!
What were you thinking allowing someone to play that unspeakably unbalanced class? Is it your Girlfriend or something?
What you should really do is have the town decide to execute Lewin - Human Wizard/Cleric/Mystic Theurge. That'll teach the munchkin!
What were you thinking allowing someone to play that unspeakably unbalanced class? Is it your Girlfriend or something?
Last edited:
BSF
Explorer
The PC is the one that put himself on the hook. Why would you let him off?
OK, as has been pointed out, the PC is not likely to be hanged. The local Noble is dead. Even if he were alive, he might not have the authority to administer High Justice. (Of course, realizing that the probably assassin was sent by the guy he is enfeafed to might push him to eliminating the PC and covering it up. But, that is not an issue since said noble is dead.) If the aristocrat that the PC is "helping" can administer High Justice, the local guards/constables/sheriffs will take the prisoner there. What the aristocrat does at that point depends on what kind of a person he is.
- He might let the PC go, a slap on the wrist, etc.
- He might make the PC "disappear"
- He might execute him
In any event, keep in mind that it was a very clumsy assassination. (It's always clumsy if you get caught.) Is the aristocrat going to be able convince any other aristocrats to vote for the PC? If so, why? If not, why? If you answer these questions, you begin to see the answers forming. It could be some really good RP possibilities. However, politics, being what they are, it is more likely that the aristocrat will do everything he can to silence the PC, permanently. I mean, he still wants that land to be productive. He doesn't want it getting out that he hired a mercenary, er adventurer, to assassinate the previous noble. Just make sure you understand the reasons in your head beforehand. Then, you can apply consequences for PC actions without feeling bad.
As for the rest of the PC's, do you think they would accept him back in? It doesn't really matter, except that if the rogue somehow gets out of this, then the rest of the players might mistake it as a dictate that they must accept the PC back into the group. Make sure they all understand that they can react however they want. This is a roleplaying game after all. Let them play their roles. If they let the PC back in, well, more fools them.
OK, as has been pointed out, the PC is not likely to be hanged. The local Noble is dead. Even if he were alive, he might not have the authority to administer High Justice. (Of course, realizing that the probably assassin was sent by the guy he is enfeafed to might push him to eliminating the PC and covering it up. But, that is not an issue since said noble is dead.) If the aristocrat that the PC is "helping" can administer High Justice, the local guards/constables/sheriffs will take the prisoner there. What the aristocrat does at that point depends on what kind of a person he is.
- He might let the PC go, a slap on the wrist, etc.
- He might make the PC "disappear"
- He might execute him
In any event, keep in mind that it was a very clumsy assassination. (It's always clumsy if you get caught.) Is the aristocrat going to be able convince any other aristocrats to vote for the PC? If so, why? If not, why? If you answer these questions, you begin to see the answers forming. It could be some really good RP possibilities. However, politics, being what they are, it is more likely that the aristocrat will do everything he can to silence the PC, permanently. I mean, he still wants that land to be productive. He doesn't want it getting out that he hired a mercenary, er adventurer, to assassinate the previous noble. Just make sure you understand the reasons in your head beforehand. Then, you can apply consequences for PC actions without feeling bad.
As for the rest of the PC's, do you think they would accept him back in? It doesn't really matter, except that if the rogue somehow gets out of this, then the rest of the players might mistake it as a dictate that they must accept the PC back into the group. Make sure they all understand that they can react however they want. This is a roleplaying game after all. Let them play their roles. If they let the PC back in, well, more fools them.
El Ravager
First Post
epochrpg said:
Hardly. The Mystic Theurge has proven to be far from broken. The MT is 9th level total now (wiz3/clr3/mt3) and he is not the most powerful PC in the group. It is an interesting class but its not a gamebreaker by any means -- at least not in my experience so far. If anyone is broken, it is the Frenzied Berzerker....
El Ravager
First Post
Great responses, thanks so much 
A couple things:
1 The party has yet to find out that Delzar tried to frame the monk. He stuck the vials in the monk's pocket and the monk hasn't even noticed yet and the guards were too intimidated by the group to go as far as a total search of the party, so the vials on the monk were not turned up there. Which leads me to point 2
2 Delzar will almost certainly not be executed. Nobody in the keep is high enough level to challenge him. The only one who could was the captain of the guard and he was killed by poison. Delzar could die in an all out fight between him and the whole keep but he will probably just get away.
There is also the matter of Delzar's henchman. Delzar had an NPC who was helping him out in his campaign for lord mayor. This guy knew a lot of the right people and was the person who hooked up Delzar with this crooked aristocrat. The rest of the party was suspicious of him, but the guy made his will saves when questioned under the zone of truth so the let him go and he is on the way back to Cauldron.
I talked to the player about all this. It seems likely that he will play out Delzar's escape and then make a new character while Delzar becomes a new badguy. When I asked the player what kind of character he thought he would make, he replied that he didn't know but he was pretty sure it will be good aligned. He said when plays a neutral character its just too easy for him to become Eeeeeeeeevil.
A couple things:
1 The party has yet to find out that Delzar tried to frame the monk. He stuck the vials in the monk's pocket and the monk hasn't even noticed yet and the guards were too intimidated by the group to go as far as a total search of the party, so the vials on the monk were not turned up there. Which leads me to point 2
2 Delzar will almost certainly not be executed. Nobody in the keep is high enough level to challenge him. The only one who could was the captain of the guard and he was killed by poison. Delzar could die in an all out fight between him and the whole keep but he will probably just get away.
There is also the matter of Delzar's henchman. Delzar had an NPC who was helping him out in his campaign for lord mayor. This guy knew a lot of the right people and was the person who hooked up Delzar with this crooked aristocrat. The rest of the party was suspicious of him, but the guy made his will saves when questioned under the zone of truth so the let him go and he is on the way back to Cauldron.
I talked to the player about all this. It seems likely that he will play out Delzar's escape and then make a new character while Delzar becomes a new badguy. When I asked the player what kind of character he thought he would make, he replied that he didn't know but he was pretty sure it will be good aligned. He said when plays a neutral character its just too easy for him to become Eeeeeeeeevil.
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