D&D 5E Should Next have been something completely new and made from scratch?

[Texicles]

What if I don't want ALL of 4e or ALL of 2e? What if I like things about BX, AD&D, 3e, and 4e? 4e isn't a single thing. Every edition is a collection of things. 5e will allow us to pick and choose among things from each edition.

This. There's no game I know of that has all things I like and no things I don't. This is true of the 5e playtest material as well. I'm not willing to write off the promised level of modularity as illusory just yet. I'll feel more entitled to such when I get ready to pay someone for something, but until then, I just take what they give as what they give, not the entirety of the edition. And even then, I'm interested in an edition that's pretty good at many things, if not the best at any.

Getting away from the food analogies because I'm already craving some sort of delicious cereal/ice cream amalgam:

I, like most these days, carry a smartphone. It's not as good as a laptop for internetting. It's not as good as a GPS for navigating. It's not as good as a PSP for gaming. It's not as a DSLR for taking pictures. It's not as good as a satellite phone for voice communication. etc. etc.

But, in one pocket [like one game at one table], I can have something that does all those things well enough that I don't feel the need to carry all the other stuff with me at all times. If I need a more specialized device [game] for a particular reason, I'll use [play] it, but when I'm done getting the needed, narrow utility, I'll return to my convenient, broad utility.

 

[fjw70]

Well for one thing, it's still in the beta stage so hopefully enough people will get across to the designers to have the game contain that modularity it promised.

Second, I don't want to dislike two editions in a row.

You mean we should try to get them to include something they said they were going to include from day one? LOL

 

[ForeverSlayer]

This. There's no game I know of that has all things I like and no things I don't. This is true of the 5e playtest material as well. I'm not willing to write off the promised level of modularity as illusory just yet. I'll feel more entitled to such when I get ready to pay someone for something, but until then, I just take what they give as what they give, not the entirety of the edition. And even then, I'm interested in an edition that's pretty good at many things, if not the best at any.

Getting away from the food analogies because I'm already craving some sort of delicious cereal/ice cream amalgam:

I, like most these days, carry a smartphone. It's not as good as a laptop for internetting. It's not as good as a GPS for navigating. It's not as good as a PSP for gaming. It's not as a DSLR for taking pictures. It's not as good as a satellite phone for voice communication. etc. etc.

But, in one pocket [like one game at one table], I can have something that does all those things well enough that I don't feel the need to carry all the other stuff with me at all times. If I need a more specialized device [game] for a particular reason, I'll use [play] it, but when I'm done getting the needed, narrow utility, I'll return to my convenient, broad utility.

Well the thing about your smartphone analogy is it's not really good for what I'm saying. Next isn't about doing mechanics well, it's about adding in elements I don't like and mixing them with elements I do like in hopes that I am going to like the overall product.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

You mean we should try to get them to include something they said they were going to include from day one? LOL

Well they did promise us modularity and I still haven't seen it yet so yes.

 

[fjw70]

Well they did promise us modularity and I still haven't seen it yet so yes.

How dare they not deliver on a promise before the game is released. Those evil . . .

 

[Texicles]

Well the thing about your smartphone analogy is it's not really good for what I'm saying. Next isn't about doing mechanics well, it's about adding in elements I don't like and mixing them with elements I do like in hopes that I am going to like the overall product.

Sorry for the lack of clarity. I wasn't actually trying to change your mind (as I think we can all agree, is unlikely on these boards at this time with the information available). I was providing an alternative conceptual framework by which other people (assuming I'm not alone in my reception of 5e) view this edition.

My analogy was intended to illustrate that A) there's virtually nothing (within a reasonable trajectory of D&D game design) that would be a "deal-breaker" in 5e for me, and B) being pretty good at a lot of things is desirable to me.

Obviously, I cannot expect that everyone else shares my view (that would be preposterous), but I'd be surprised if I were alone in my way of thinking.

 

[Zardnaar]

The big difference for me with D&DN is I will not be buying it blind. I bought 2,3rd and 4th ed sight unseen, BECMI was the only one I played before I bought. That automatic loyalty towards D&D is gone and it is a direct result of 4E. If I can get a copy of the PHB for $10 like Paizos core book I can at least look before I buy but knowing wizards it will be a $20-35 PDF.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Well they did promise us modularity and I still haven't seen it yet so yes.

Really? In previous test packs, modularity has been in backgrounds and skills; in the current test pack it is explicit in feats. Plus there are other optional rules (also modular) for Unusual races, custom backgrounds, experimental rules for attunement, etc. All of this fulfills the promise of modularity in different ways.

Does it do so in the way you want? Probably not. But mischaracterizing what is there will not help your case.

But that's the whole problem. It's mixing elements I don't like from an edition I don't like so I don't really want to play it any more.

I find it incredible that anyone would expect to like every rule in a game. Since you are on a food analogy kick, let's go with another one:

In daycare, when they are handing out popsicles, "you get what you get". don't like orange but prefer grape or cherry? too bad: you get what you get. You can choose not to eat the popsicle you are given (though very few pursue this option, because popsicles like rpgs can be awesome), and some will like what they get more than others. But you know what? In the end, they're still giving out popsicles because most people like most of what's there.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I don't like damage on a miss which is a 4th edition element. What two handed specific option do I have to replace it?

I am truly hoping that this thread has not been started to discuss yet again one character option among five available to certain classes, and that you actually want to take the discussion in new directions. Since you brought it up, though...

You would like an option, which is available for fighters wanting specifically to use a two-handed weapon, in addition to the two options that are available and of benefit to other melee classes? And if you don't get it you don't want to play D&D anymore?

Salvation is at hand. I will write a module for you that meets your requirements, which will keep you playing the game.

(optional rule)
Fighting style.
Great Weapon Fighting.
When you hit a target with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you may add +1 to your final damage total. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property to gain this benefit.

 

[Raith5]

All RPGs are in competition with each other in one form or another. We have Pathfinder, 13th Age, Hackmaster, Rolemaster, and a few others that a lot of people are playing. D&D doesn't have as much of a hold on the industry as it once did and I don't see this edition helping them either.

Are you not answering your own question here? For DDN to compete with the wide variety of retro clones it has to be significantly different from them.

FWIW I am surprised how relatively minimal the influence of 4th ed has been on DDN given a need a) for DDN to be more than a retro clone and b) capture some of the 4th ed crowd.

I guess the issue is that there is enough 4th and 3rd ed elements to annoy folk like you and enough reverence to pre 3rd elements to annoy me! I hope for all our sakes that modularity will minimse this.