Should Players Engage With The Rules?

[vortex]

It works either way - either GM runs all the rules stuff (and tracks the PC sheets) or the players do. What doesn't work is mixing non-rules-oriented players with min-max number-cruncher types. Default 3e is certainly oriented to the second type of player I'd reckon, but doesn't have to be run like that - certainly PBEM play is more fun with "real roleplayer" players than with rules-lawyer players.

I agree - but i think number crunchers will always know the rules ('cos that's what they enjoy), and players that don't care to learn all of the rules aren't too fussed, as long as you keep the game fun and interesting.

 

[S'mon]

I'd just do it this way -
"So what do you want to do?"
"I want to charge the ogre and hit it with my scimitars!"
"Sure - the orgres are a little way off. You draw your weapons and charge in. As you get close the ogres clobber you <roll dice, deliver outcome>. They've got longer arms than you so get a free hit as you move in. You will be able to him'em next round."

"Ok (to the next player) you're up - what do ya want to do?"

I'd let the PC combine drawing scimitars with charging (it's a move, right? Why not? Seems fair); the ogre might not get an AoO since this is probably the 1st combat round & it's flat-footed, and the PC would get their 1 attack at +2 to hit. Then on the ogre's init they get to splat him, but at least he died happy.

 

[vortex]

I'd let the PC combine drawing scimitars with charging (it's a move, right? Why not? Seems fair); the ogre might not get an AoO since this is probably the 1st combat round & it's flat-footed, and the PC would get their 1 attack at +2 to hit. Then on the ogre's init they get to splat him, but at least he died happy.

I knew someone would want to pick me up on the move/draw thing. I was just playing the scenario as presented by Hypersmurf, after all he's the GM, so his ruling goes.

The point is - its a game - its for fun. It's not supposed to be like writing your Masters thesis.

 

[Flyspeck23]

"Yes. Just like it did last week. And last month, too. When Alan spent an hour hunting through the city for 100gp pearls. Remember?"

Grr.

Could be worse, of course. "Okay, I'll cast Summon Monster IV! ... what do you mean, 'one round casting time'? ... hmm, okay. Anyway, I want to summon... um... hey, what's a 'mephit'? Are they any good?"

Oh yes, that'd be worse. Luckily, Summon Monster's not an artificer spell.

OTOH, there are scrolls. And said artificer already used a charm person scroll last session without reading the description once - merely the summary of the spell in a spell list. And no idea of how long the spell would last... again, it's obviously the GM's job to have all spells memorized - description and parameters.

I won't blame a player for not knowing the rules. But if a player says to me "Why didn't you tell me how that spell works?", it's annoying.

 

[S'mon]

I knew someone would want to pick me up on the move/draw thing. I was just playing the scenario as presented by Hypersmurf, after all he's the GM, so his ruling goes.

The point is - its a game - its for fun. It's not supposed to be like writing your Masters thesis.

Yeah - my point was that his ruling seemed a bit anal & not much fun. Actually that's always a big threat in 3e, even when I say "Ok, we're going to run this free & easy" we still end up square-counting and worrying about AoOs. Sometimes I really miss 1e.

 

[Mark Hope]

I'd agree that players should at least have a grasp of the rules that are relevant to their character abilities. At the end of the day, rpgs are games and games have rules. It would be a bit rude to turn up to a game of footie or pool or poker week after week not knowing the rules and expecting someone else to worry about them each time. While I, as DM, by neccessity must understand as many of the rules as I can manage, this does not mean that the players therefore need to understand none. If a player refuses to take game rules on board but still wants to roleplay, they would be better off with a freeform system or joining a drama club.

 

[vortex]

Yeah - my point was that his ruling seemed a bit anal & not much fun. Actually that's always a big threat in 3e, even when I say "Ok, we're going to run this free & easy" we still end up square-counting and worrying about AoOs. Sometimes I really miss 1e.

I agree S'mon. Most of my players love square counting and the like. They are also the ones who own all of the books, have read all the rules and email me saying "if i combine these two feats can I get x bonus?". But, i have other players who just want to turn up and have fun - we are all friends and enjoy the companionship. I don't run my game like a police state, I don't think chastising players for their casualness with the ruleset would improve anyone's enjoyment.

 

[vortex]

I'd agree that players should at least have a grasp of the rules that are relevant to their character abilities. At the end of the day, rpgs are games and games have rules. It would be a bit rude to turn up to a game of footie or pool or poker week after week not knowing the rules and expecting someone else to worry about them each time. While I, as DM, by neccessity must understand as many of the rules as I can manage, this does not mean that the players therefore need to understand none. If a player refuses to take game rules on board but still wants to roleplay, they would be better off with a freeform system or joining a drama club.

I think it depends on why you are getting together. If you are playing competative footy, pool or poker - you proably are worried about the fine details of the rules. If you are just having a social kick, frame or hand, does it really matter?

At the end of the day - they're your friends. You can be friendly or you can be a rule-nazi (no soup for you!). Take your pick.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Yeah - my point was that his ruling seemed a bit anal & not much fun.

It is what's written, though.

You can combine drawing a weapon with a regular move. The movement portion of a charge is about as irregular as movement gets, with its straight line restrictions and ten foot minimum.

As long as the ogre is only thirty feet away (for an unencumbered human), he can still draw-while-moving normally and make his one attack; he just can't charge.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

I also find it a bit difficult to picture someone making a charge while drawing the weapon (maybe a Iaido master ).

For running a free & easy game it probably makes sense to not use a grid and no AoOs (doesn't really hurt, if you know that before the game starts, AoOs are not that fundamental to the game, that it wouldn't work without).

Bye
Thanee