Should Power Source have greater meaning?

[Incenjucar]

Yes, psionics are explained as a response by the world to the Far Realm. This may develop later, but at the moment, Psionics are from the World itself.

And yes, Arcane is more a method than anything else. It would make a very large amount of sense for most Arcane powers to have a keyword from another power source. That said, there's still a lot of room to argue that Arcane magic is tapping into background magic, most likely originated from the Ethereal, which every other power source is a filter for.

Think of the Ethereal as Water, with the various power sources being different types of drink - all ultimately water-based.

Divine is Booze
Primal is Milk
Psionics is Fruit Juice
Shadow is Coffee
Elemental is Tea

Arcane is what happens when you drain most of a glass, then fill the rest with water.

 

[FreeXenon]

Interesting thought..

In 4e, if I remember correctly, the ethereal does not exist. It was combined with the Astral.

But, from a 3E perspective that makes sense. (assuming I am not off my rocker)

=)

 

[Drowdruid]

I think 5e should bring back ethereal and connect psionics with another plane of this sort that cummulate all thoughts like ethereal will cummulate pure magic energy called mana. Plane connected with Psionic should be known as Mind Network sort of magical WWW or eventually Dreamscape.

 

[Incenjucar]

The Ethereal does actually seem to exist in 4E. It's the space between planes. They've mentioned it by name in Mord's Emporium, and they've hinted at it off and on. That it's so far in the background as to be barely-mentioned actually works very well.

 

[FreeXenon]

Ahhh... good to know, Icenjucar.

Thanks!

 

[KidSnide]

I think my problem is that a strong connection between a plane and a power source provides a nice design aesthetic, but I'm not sure how it really helps the game.

Take the divine power source. Designing a class, it helps me to know that the divine power source dominates certain types of "unholy" things such as the undead, and that it favors radiant damages along with a little chock of thunder and lightning. To take a hypothetical expansion, it would also be helpful to know that there are a collection of spheres associated with each god, so servants of different gods share abilities based on their deities' spheres of influence. That is fluff/crunch that helps me build mechanics for divine classes.

Maybe it's a little helpful to know that deities reside in the astral sea, so divine classes should have better rituals for contacting astral denizens or other "astral stuff"? But mostly, I tend to think connections between power source and plane is a nice-to-have fluff element that should be written in when it works, and otherwise the designers really shouldn't worry about it. I don't see how the arcane source would be better if it was "all from the faewild" (or from any place else, for that matter).

-KS

 

[Incenjucar]

I really don't want to see the power sources become cookie-cutter. The current situation is very complex, and that works really nicely, in the same way that the Law/Chaos Good/Evil thing used to work in earlier editions, to create unusual alliances and enemies.

For example, Divine is opposed to Elemental and Primal because of the Dawn War and later events. Divine is opposed to Shadow because Shadow eats the souls that Divine wants for itself.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I think my problem is that a strong connection between a plane and a power source provides a nice design aesthetic, but I'm not sure how it really helps the game.

Exactly. While an elegant in-game cosmological correspondence among sources would be lovely, the game itself is a high-fantasy RPG. Designers should look to archetypes from myth, legend, literature & cinema within that genre. Specific archetypes offer ideas for classes, broader ones for Sources. The trappings of the hermetic tradition are woven deep into modern (and by 'modern' I mean going back to Shakespear) fantasy, so Arcane - the eldritch magic of occult knowldge - is in, no question. The vast majority of heroes in heroic fantasy are knights, warriors, barbarians, or cunning opportunists - Martial is unquestionably in. There isn't a culture that lacks religion, so evern though priestly archetypes don't exactly fill the genre /as heroes/, leaving out Divine would be pushing it.


Everything after that is questionable. 'Psionics' is a mid-20th century sci-fi innovation. 'Primal' carves animism from the broader landscape of religion. 'Shadow' could easily be a sub-set of Arcane - as could almost any non-divine 'magic.'

 

[I'm A Banana]

So, my question is, should power sources have greater meaning within the system?

I'd like to see power source giving you a "powers list."

There's one list of "arcane spells." There's one list of "martial powers." There's one list of "divine prayers." There's one list of "psionic disciplines."

You class defines which specific powers you might get access to (like a spell list), and perhaps your role mechanic(s).

This helps with the problem highlighted in the most recent Rule Of Three, too: there's now a smaller powers list, with more iconic powers in them, rather than 500 powers for each individual class.

 

[Incenjucar]

While it is of course important to have a strong emphasis on traditional archetypes, it can be extremely valuable for the game and for fantasy in general for new archetypes to be attempted from time to time. Stagnation is bad for the game and the genre.