Should races have mechanical effects?

[UngeheuerLich]

I would like to have races not giving a bonus to ability scores.
Instead you would get racial powers and abilities like in 4e.

If you want dwarves beeing more tough than other races in general, i would rather have minimum attributes for them.

Sure you can be a dwarf, but your constitution has to be at least 8.

 

[Number48]

A stop-gap fix I made in 3.0 when I was dissatisfied with the shoehorning of the racial bonus and penalty was this: Take an elf for example. By the book +2 Dex and -2 Con. I changed that to +2 to any stat except Con, and -2 to any stat except Dex. This describes the race of elves in general, but allows a great more variety in your character. Just for the balance point, before it's brought up, humans got +2 to any, -2 to any.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Races without mechanical effect can be done even in a system that also has races with mechanical effect.

One option: Pick from these different races. They look like this and have these stats and abilities.
Other Option: Pick from these diffferent races. They look like this. Also, get these stats and abilities regardless of your racial choice.

I don't think decoupling race from mechanics makes all that much sense. Races are also about archetypes, so it makes sense that they affect you to represent that archetype.

I think it's by design and not by accident that racial modifiers for example make certain class choices more interesting. The question is more if it's sometimes too restrictive at the same time. "What, you want play a Dwarven Wizard?! You and your suboptimal characters!" (But to some, the response would be more: "What, you want to play a Dwarven Wizard!?! Dwarves can't cast spells in my world!")

 

[Minigiant]

One things about racial mechanics I'd prefer is them not to one that make races better at one class than other races. Instead each race would nudge PCs into certain styles of play with classes.

The Dwarf rogue would make a good melee weapon poison rogue with their extra HP and poison resistance. Halflings' size would pus a rogue to a style that focuses on stealth and sneak attack rather that base weapon damage.


Therefore if a player has his PC get the most of their racial mechanics:

Dwarf: Tough Melee Rogue
Halfling: Lurking mobility based Rogue
Elf: Ranged bow Rogue
Human: A versatile or focused Rogue
etc...

 

[Recidivism]

I'm generally in favor of more importance being given to race choice. I feel like race should be a feature that is suffused throughout the entire play experience of a character and not just a thin-veneer manifested as a lone power or stat bonus.

However that's a personal choice in how I want my campaigns to be played and their level of verisimilitude. Perhaps it would be best if each race was presented as a suite of traits and allow players to choose, from "I'm an Elf and I have no mechanical traits" to "I'm an Orc, which impacts my options and my play in X, Y, Z, etc. ways."

 

[avin]

I can live with different spell like abilities, ability scores, features etc for different races.

I dislike racial aptitudes (elf is wizard), that just do not make sense, IMO.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

One aspect of 4th edition races that I didn't like was the flat stat bonuses. I understand that certain races are better performing in certain classes, that's fine. However, the class structure left almost all characters relying on only 2-3 stats. In the old days you could absolutely dump one, maybe two stats if you weren't a Paladin or Ranger, and they felt like they had important consequences (because all stats impacted something, from carrying capacity to vulnerability to certain spells).

When you can dump many more stats, focusing only on the one you use to hit (which is *always* the same, no matter what sort of attack you make), the one that governs your secondary damage or power choice (sometimes there were two here) and the third would often be for feat choice or similar. This meant that certain races were *ideal* for certain class builds, and so it always felt a bit unfortunate that Eladrin loved wands, for instance. With just one stat bonus, you would pick Wizard, sure, but with two you pick wands. It becomes another straight-jacket, unless you deliberately play against type, with much more severe consequences in 4th edition than previously (I believe).

I'm going on a bit now, but I guess I blame class design more than race design for this. Or maybe the slim skill system. Why bother being a charismatic Ranger when any oaf with a tick in Diplomacy will be better than you at it? Why bother being a dextrous fighter when you're designed never to use a ranged weapon (or indeed, a strong ranger because you're designed never to enter melee)? Clerics are universally stupid, Warlords always unwise. Everything became much too focused on class, not enough on stats.

 

[Mallus]

Yes.

Next question.

 

[delericho]

Reading the thread on the latest Legends and Lore column, I began wondering: What if 5E offers races, but no mechanical impact of race?

I wouldn't agree with this. I think things like the halfling's small size or the dwarf's darkvision need some sort of mechanical representation.

What I would support would be stripping races down to the absolute minimum - no stat adjustments, very minor skill adjustments, and very little else. And then, for players who want them, add various powers/feats/whatever that are available only to members of that race. (Perhaps even modelling the subraces using those same powers.)

To me, one of the design decisions I least liked about 3.x was exactly these mechanical differences. Too often players chose a race as part of a build, just to get a specific bonus, yet the resulting character never seemed any different from an identical build with a human.

I hate that "humans with funny noses" approach to non-human races, especially since it seemed people would too often choose the race solely to get a favourable set of stat mods for their chosen class.

Unfortunately, I think that may well be a playstyle issue, and not something that the rules can actually do a great deal about.

 

[Hassassin]

If you strip mechanical effect from races, you might as well strip them from classes.

I don't really like any *restrictions* based on races, but things like ability score bonuses (and penalties!), skill bonuses, size modifiers etc., should definitely be there.