Should Scimitars be finessable in 3.5?

[Fenes 2]

And quit picking on the Drizz't clones, people. Just because a character wants to dual-wield scimitars by itself does not make him a Drizz't clone... what're prospective dual-wielders to do, wield paired bastard swords or short swords all the time? Just to avoid a stereotype? I know it gets tiresome, but as long as it's not a drow ranger...

Besides, as Drizzt is not particularly effectively built in the FRCS he can't serve as the posterboy for "l33t" PCs anymore. He got good press as in that he cuts through anybody in the novels, but the stats don't back it up compared to most PCs of that level. I still remember the look on one of my player's face when I told him that his 13th-level fighter/duelist "could take Drizzt" when we were discussing the power level of the (low-magic) campaign we are currently playing.

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

It depends on the kind of rapier you are talking about; the rapiers used by Swedish soldiers in the 17-18th century were equally good for cutting and thrusting. These are the only rapiers I know enough about to say anything

The Swedish rapiers were amongst the heaviest swords in use around that time, IRRC, and would more fairly be classified as sabres. If I'm not mistanken it was, in fact, the Swedes during the Thirty Years War that reintroduced the sabre as a cavalry weapon.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

But when I think "scimitar" I don't think of a medium-sized, but very light, fencing weapon; the arabian scimitar is not a light sword, by any means.

The thing is a lot of people say scimitar, when in fact, they're thinking of a falchion. So it's hard to know where anyone is coming from without them directing you to a picture.
(Speaking of which, all of those links lead to that site's main page.)
A falchion is a pretty big sword. A scimitar in my mind is about the same shape as a cavalry saber, if a bit more curved.
As for whether or not it should be finessable;
If Ahmed's performance with his improvised scimitar in The 13th Warrior is any indication, yeah, it's finessable.

 

[Oni]

Sword classifications are so muddy no rpg book'll probably every do them justice. Sabre for instance has two fairly different definitions. You have a fencing sabre, but you also have a calvery sword of the same name, and the weapons are very different.


This kind of thing can lead to confusion. I can imagine one scenerio right now. Dnd says you can weapon finesse a rapier. You fence with a rapier. A Sabre is also a fencing weapon therefor you should be able to finesse that. However a sabre is also a curved calvery sword. Many people use the term scimitar and shamshir interchangeable. One style of scimitar/shamshir is a calvery sabre of sorts (thin curved blade, not the fat one commonly imagined, in fact the picture of the scimitar in the PHB is this style). So scimitar equals a sabre, and a sabre equals a rapier. However a sabre does not not equal a sabre so the logic breaks down here as the weapon they are referring to with the weapon equivalancy chart isnt a fencing weapon at all.

 

[Celtavian]

Re

I think weapon finesse should apply to scimitars, if only to give credence to why Drizz't is such a bad ass with only a 12 strength.

 

[Gez]

Well, in 3.5, Weapon Finesse will be a general feat (all finessable weapons will be affected). So mechanically you could use that as a prerequisite for another feat, "Improved Weapon Finesse", that would allow you to finesse one chosen weapon you could not normally finesse.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I don't think it should be finessable.

Weapons in 3e are too similar (mechanically) as it is. I don't think their properties should be swapped out at whim. If you want a finessable sword, you either go with a rapier or a short sword. If you want a slashing sword that does 1d6 and has an 18-20 crit range, you pick up a scimitar.

Not all weapons are created equal. The rapier is probably a little bit better for a dexterity-based fighter, or a rogue, to choose. For a strength-based fighter, or barbarian, the scimitar would be a better choice. I like that.

If you are a dex-based fighter that wants to use scimitars, then you'll have to give up the optimal choice for flavor. I once had a PC who liked crossbows over bows. I didn't try and get the DM to let me use the bow stats instead, but call it a crossbow.

 

[D'karr]

The thing is a lot of people say scimitar, when in fact, they're thinking of a falchion. So it's hard to know where anyone is coming from without them directing you to a picture.
(Speaking of which, all of those links lead to that site's main page.)
A falchion is a pretty big sword. A scimitar in my mind is about the same shape as a cavalry saber, if a bit more curved.
As for whether or not it should be finessable;
If Ahmed's performance with his improvised scimitar in The 13th Warrior is any indication, yeah, it's finessable.

Here is the link to the rapier he was mentioning
rapier

I believe this is the one he mentioned as a cut and thrust rapier
cut and thrust

And another one to add fuel to the fire
Cool looking scimitar


Now to add my two cents. It is merely a matter of taste. Mechanically a scimitar is identical to a rapier. So I say go ahead and make it finessable if you wish.

BTW, I might be wrong but if I recall correctly the cutlass is a finessable weapon and it is identical in game statistics to a scimitar.

Take a look at the description of the cutlass here and see if it doesn't resemble a D&D scimitar and if it should not be finessable from that description.

 

[Thorvald Kviksverd]

Question - from a game mechanic perspective - does it really hurt to have ANY weapon be finnessible?

Afterall, you do not apply the dex bonus to damage and you are spending a feat to get the +x - overall seems balanced to me.

I agree.

Just think of it as being reflective of a PC's combat style--rather than something inherent in the weapon itself.

Sometimes he might be relying more on fancy footwork and feints, while at other times he might fall back on a more traditional or brute force approach.

 

[devoblue]

I wouldn't allow it.

I see weapon finesse for the rapier as the ability to make it do piercing damage by locating a gap in the armour or another sensitive part. The key is that if there is a gap in the helmet or under the armpit, a piercing weapon will be much more effective than a slashing weapon at locating that spot, and dexterity will be important in hitting the spot.

The rapier is also a balanced weapon, so a javelin could not be used. A pick has a slashing type motion to do piercing damage, so it is also not appropriate.

The trade off for the players is to choose piercing and finesse, or slashing. Slashing is a more effective damage type that piercing (I think), and a slashing and finesse combo would be a no-brainer.