Should Scimitars be finessable in 3.5?

[mmadsen]

"Scimitar" is simply the European version of "shamshir", the Persion word for cavalry sabre. A cavalry sabre like the shamshir is a curved, slashing sword, about the size of a typical knight's sword (what D&D calls a "longsword").

The heavy, curved sword with a wider blade near the end than near the hilt is a falchion, and it's actually a European weapon -- despite the common cartoon depiction of Arabs' swords.

Almost entirely different is the modern sport-fencing sabre which weighs just a pound. That saber would naturally be quite "finesse-able"; it was designed for just that purpose.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Yeah, if you've ever actually played with a cavalry saber, you wouldn't be arguing for finessable. The weight on those things helped carry a slash right through a rider or his horse.

A fencing saber -- obviously finessable.

The question is: which one is the scimitar closer to? Given that the game stats are more like a rapier, I'd say fencing saber, so go for it with Finesse.

 

[Fenris]

Fencing Sabres are not finesseable, or at least in modern fencing they are not finessed compared to foils and epees. If you have ever fenced or watched sabre fencing, it is not about finesse. It is about speed, who gets in the first hit. Two sabre wielding fencers go running pell-mell down the strip towards each other trying to hit each other on the head (valid target for a sabre). It is an overhand attack that relies on powering down your opponents blade into target area. In epee and foil fencing you do finesse the blade, there are parries and defenses. In my opinion (except for cultural issues) scimitars should not be finessed. As an overhand slashing weapon, it does not lend itself to what finessing is supposed to be, the artful use of a light weapon to quickly strike (i.e. thrust) at a target. Scimitars usually had sharpened points, but were primarily slashing weapons.

 

[Sejs]

it does not lend itself to what finessing is supposed to be, the artful use of a light weapon to quickly strike (i.e. thrust) at a target

I disagree, Fenris.

You can finesse a light mace, light pick, or hand axe just as easily as you can finesse a dagger or rapier. Artful use and thrusting arn't necessary components of what is or isn't a finessable weapon.

 

[Fenris]

I disagree, Fenris.

You can finesse a light mace, light pick, or hand axe just as easily as you can finesse a dagger or rapier. Artful use and thrusting arn't necessary components of what is or isn't a finessable weapon.

But all of those require a long, strong swing to hit and do damage. Now if you are saying that you can finesse those weapons by the rules... that may be well and true and I have no problem with that. But finesse is about using a smaller, lighter weapon and thereby being able to control it easier and strike more quickly. Typically that would involve a thrusting weapon. Now any small weapon will work, based upon the simple mechanic that the rules use (K.I.S.S. works here). But we ought not expand the rules of finessabilty to medium weapons wily-nily. The arguement I am making is that IF you wish to make a medium weapon finessable (accepting the one given exception) it OUGHT to be a weapon for which it could be conceivable to wield deftly and nimbly. Trust me, I fenced NCAA, you can react more quickly with an epee or a foil than with a sabre and a fencing sabre is much lighter than a real scimitar.

 

[Sejs]

Fair enough, Fenris. My thinking on the subject was more along the lines of the two weapons have identical stats, therefor it wouldn't be unbalancing to let them both be finessable instead of just one and not the other.

K.I.S.S., just from another direction.

^_^

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

Let's see if these links work...
Rapier

Swept Hilt Rapier

Classical Rapier

English Rapier

Flamberge Rapier

German Rapier

Steel Swept-Hilt Rapier - right hand

Shell Guard Rapier

Desert King Scimitar

Mongol Sword (Looks a lot like the scimitar to me)

These all worked right in the preview. Let me know if they don't work for you.

 

[theoremtank]

I agree that whether the scimitar is finessible really depends on what variant or similar sword you are considering.

My family has a US civil war sabre which is quite heavy and I can't imagine swinging it around like a fencer fights.

Although I can imagine swords I have seen and held that could be catagorized as a scimitar as being finessible.

Perhaps the d&d weapon proficiency system needs to add more weapon types and subtypes such as Light Scimitar, Calvary Saber/scimitar, great scimitar, etc.

 

[Catulle]

A machete is basically a shortsword, so yes.

Except a machete's a slashing weapon, whereas a shortsword's all about piercing... which takes us right back to square one.

Regards,

Barry

 

[hong]

Except a machete's a slashing weapon, whereas a shortsword's all about piercing...

Make it up.


Hong "is ALLOWED" Ooi