D&D (2024) Should shields, like Simple weapons be available to all characters?

[UngeheuerLich]

I do not get this fear of wizards having weapons.

do you really thing that a wizard with no armor, d6 HD, 8 STR, no extra attack(s), no attack riders, no fighting styles and now no masteries is a real threat with greatsword in melee combat?

+1 attack with 2d6-1 damage?!
Les'ts say with 14 dex and 14 con, that is 8HP and 12 AC, 15 with mage armor.

Wow, we better call fighters, they are deleted from 2024 because of wizards epic sword skills.

In combination with your proposal that con and str should be combined, yes, wizads with green flame blade and a greatsword are a bit much, as there is no downside.
Also, greatsword + true strike also seems too much.

 

[Andvari]

View attachment 334836
I love this picture where it shows how to cast spells with 1Hander+Shield.

I'd let him blast the beam out of his mace.

 

[Horwath]

Wizards are not force to gave 8 Str.

anything you put in STR you take from somewhere else, sure 8 CHA sounds workable, but all else is a waste.

Mage armor and Shield can add defense.

uses resources, working as intended

Bladesinger gets multiple attack at 6.

it's in the subclass budget, and if not, it is not working with Bladesinging as you cannot have a shield or 2Handed weapon

Elemental weapon is a damage add, or Haste, or Foresight.
Plenty of spells don't need Int.

Still probably not going to match a fighter, but could do better than you might expect.

yeah, at best you will blow 90+% of your spell slots to be bad fighter wannabe.

 

[Horwath]

In combination with your proposal that con and str should be combined, yes, wizads with green flame blade and a greatsword are a bit much, as there is no downside.
Also, greatsword + true strike also seems too much.

maybe, we will see if we get inflation of Astral elf wizards or races that gain floating weapon proficiency.
Right now, Mt.Dwarf with Tasha options is the best wizard for that combo.

 

[ECMO3]

I do not get this fear of wizards having weapons.

do you really thing that a wizard with no armor, d6 HD, 8 STR, no extra attack(s), no attack riders, no fighting styles and now no masteries is a real threat with greatsword in melee combat?

+1 attack with 2d6-1 damage?!
Les'ts say with 14 dex and 14 con, that is 8HP and 12 AC, 15 with mage armor.

Wow, we better call fighters, they are deleted from 2024 because of wizards epic sword skills.

I just don't see a reason for them to be proficient. From a story point of view I don't get it being part of the class.

I do think they should be able to use any weapon in combat, I just don't think they should get proficiency bonuses. In 5E they can swing a greatsword for 2d6-1, I think that is a good thing and I want to keep it.

FWIW In 5E I have used nets with Wizards quite a bit, without proficiency of course.

 

[ECMO3]

Wizards are not force to gave 8 Str.
Mage armor and Shield can add defense.
Bladesinger gets multiple attack at 6.
Elemental weapon is a damage add, or Haste, or Foresight.
Plenty of spells don't need Int.

Still probably not going to match a fighter, but could do better than you might expect.

A Bladesinger optimized for melee, with melee oriented defensive spells is more than a match for most fighters or any other martial class for that matter. Not with a greatsword though, they would typically be using a finesse weapons.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm not sure worrying about a small percentage of arcane casters is worth the time, however. Most of those things can be used by an Eldritch Knight (and better, since they natively have better AC options), and casting Haste on one's self is pretty risky, given what happens if you lose concentration.

Haste is not as risky as it seems, most of the time haste drops it costs you one action, one bonus action and a move, occasionally it costs a reaction as well, but not usually.

An EK is typically not going to match a bladesinger of equal level in terms of effective AC. They do have better armor at low levels, but they don't have enough spells at low levels and fewer effective spells at higher levels.

 

[ECMO3]

anything you put in STR you take from somewhere else, sure 8 CHA sounds workable, but all else is a waste.

uses resources, working as intended

it's in the subclass budget, and if not, it is not working with Bladesinging as you cannot have a shield or 2Handed weapon

There is a viable build for this though, play a mountain Dwarf and ion point buy run a 17 strength, 16 Constitution, 14 dexterty and 10 intelligence. You can also take the heavy armor feat at level 4 and boost strength.

One other thing you can do is trade your Dwarf light armor proficiency, but not your medium armor proficiency.

This would not be as effective at very high level as a more traditional bladesinger because you would lose song of victory and song of defense, but it would still be pretty powerful and probably just as good in tier 1/2.

yeah, at best you will blow 90+% of your spell slots to be bad fighter wannabe.

A bladesinger will blow most fighters out of the water in melee. I have played a fair number of these, I would say it is closer to 100% of your spells, than 90% of your spells but you are bad ass when doing that.

The best way to do it IMO is a halfling starting with an odd dexterity and picking up the 2nd chance feat (to beat crits). Then add False Life, Mage Armor, Shield, Absorb Elements, Protection from Evil and Good, Silvery Barbs (again for crit protection), Blur and Haste ..... those are most of the leveled spells you will use. Occasionally you will have something like Tasha's Guise at high level, but for the most part you are using high level slots on False Life.

 

[Greg K]

D&D doesn't really make much sense in its methods of determining whether characters have "combat training" or not. Using a shield effectively is just as difficult as usinga sword effectively. Sure, anyone can try and use either of those things to block an incoming blow, but if you don't know what you are doing and your opponent does, your sword or shield is not going to save you.

Not exactly a shield, but I still recall holding a huge foam kicking pad for my martial arts instructor. Didn't know what I was doing and braced myself with the pad in front of me and my body turned sideways thinking the pad would absorb the kick and leave me protected. In addition to driving me back, the kick drove my elbow into my ribs leaving them severely bruised

 

[Horwath]

Not exactly a shield, but I still recall holding a huge foam kicking pad for my martial arts instructor. Didn't know what I was doing and braced myself with the pad in front of me and my body turned sideways thinking the pad would absorb the kick and leave me protected. In addition to driving me back, the kick drove my elbow into my ribs leaving them severely bruised

and how long did it take to learn to brace correctly?

2 kicks? maybe 3?

learning to shoot a bow is hard, I have a longbow(or more precisely a recurve) and it takes time.

holding a plank of wood does not.

now, bashing with a shield and still managing to use it for protection, that takes practice, could that be a Fighting style or a Feat maybe?