Should Spot checks include looking up?

[billd91]

The way I see skills like Spot and Search, the higher scores indicate characters who are thorough at what they're doing.
A high spot means that the character knows and remembers to scan quickly and efficiently everywhere that's important, including the ceiling. A character with a lower score is the sort who doesn't do so as well and thus misses things more often.
For search, a high score means you're thorough at searching everything in the area. You open the drawers, feel underneath, peek under the bedclothes and around the mattress, and so on. I recall a thread about specifically explaining how you're searching (I think it involved moving straw out of the way of a secret trap door). If you've got a good search score, you generally remember to do that very sort of thing and that's why you're better at finding things than someone with a bad search score.

 

[Dracorat]

I'm running WLD also. One of the characteristic traits about it is that ceilings are pretty high in most areas. Usually 25 feet up or more.

In a room where there is an ambush from right above the door, they don't have a chance at all of spotting a monster that is waiting in that ambush if they are checking from outside the room. I make exception only if they specifically say they are going to lean in and look up.

Any monster on the ceiling anywhere else in the room however is subject to normal spot chance.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

what do you do for Listen checks?

you can hear things in 3D... 4D if you include time and distance (like thunder)

Player: But I got a 40 on my listen check!

DM: Sorry, you didn't specify you were listening up.

 

[sniffles]

I was going to say "it depends" before I read the initial post. But under those circumstances I'd have to agree that it seems ridiculous to insist on having the players announce "I'm looking up" every time. After a couple of attacks from above the characters are going to be a bit paranoid about things dropping on them and at least one of them is likely to stare at the ceiling all the time.

Under other circumstances I'd say "it depends", though. If you're talking about 1st-level PCs who don't know much about adventuring and probably wouldn't be aware of all the different monster types, then they might not think to look up. At least, not until something falls on their heads.

 

[Harmon]

If it doesn't then we need more description in gaming.

I assume that PCs walking, or riding anywhere stop sometimes along the way to stretch, sit down and eat, or lay back in the tall grass to take a nap while their companions go take care of some waste issues behind a tree. Said individual might just look up into the sky.

A rogue checking for traps might look up to see if their is a dead fall above the door before he moves forward to search for traps.

A ranger looking for a spy might think- "our enemy is a wizard and he has a raven familar, he might send the creature to find us," even if the player doesn't say it.

Its pretty thoughtless to assume your players have to say every single thing their characters are doing.

GM- "what do you do next?"

Player1- "step out of the tavern, look about, stretch, looking up, and about, letting my eyes adjust to the different light of the outside. Are their any noises about? Any birds in the sky? Horses on the street?"

GM- "this is Greyhawk, there are lots of things going on."

Player1- "to my right, describe everything I see..."

 

[jollyninja]

I look at it this way, when you get into that level of specific character actions needing to be described, you are making the game less fun. the first time, I can see it making sense. even the second but after that, no way.

I once resorted to telling a dm every time my character went to the bathroom, ate some rations, drank from his waterskin ect....... only for one session, it was the first game the guy had dmed since 1e, we made it a joke and nobody was offended.

 

[megamania]

I am one of the few that said 'NO'.

Unless they say they are looking up I add a +5 to the DC of the Spot check for something hidden over head. This keeps it do-able by players without being a 'given'.

 

[Dracorat]

1/ There is no directional facing in D&D;

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/combatFacing.htm

 

[megamania]

Reading some of the comments here, there may be a consideration of Search vs Spot.

To me, Search is a conscience effort, Spot is something was seen that you were not looking for or expecting. Thus something overhead would be Spot. Afterall- how often will one walk down a hallway watching the ceiling and not where they are walking. When at a doorway, you are Searching for trouble thus one would look overhead.

Push comes to shove, Its what you and the others agree on (Players AND DM).

 

[Dracorat]

Search requires six seconds of effort per five foot square searched and includes touching. Spot is a "quick over" with your eyes.