Should Str and Con be one stat?

[pawsplay]

In general, you can not have "too many" stats for realism. Intelligence alone could be broken up into at least a dozen stats, and sword-fighting involves at least three kinds of Strength (swinging fast, shoving someone backward, and swinging repeatedly without tiring). I once sat down and wrote down what I thought would be every meaningful attribute/ability score for an action game. I narrowed it down to, I believe, 45 attributes that were distinct and useful enough to define. I still have it somewhere, and use it as my "bible." When I actually sit down to design a game, though, the final number is always between four and twelve.

Why? Playability, first. And second, because in different genres, various abilities are considered as one. Or aren't important.

 

[William drake]

I kind of like the idea that strength and constitution are two different stats, but I'm not sure how realistic it is. In general, there tends to be a strong correlation between the two, and I really can't think of any characters who would have a high strength but low constitution.

Does anyone have any examples (real-life/fictional) of characters that could be strong but frail, or weak but tough?

(Even writing those descriptors seems a little bit oxymoronic.)

Read what both the stats mean. They are two different things. And to give an example of what sort of character could have one, but not the other...think of a long distance runner. Lots of Con, not alot of Strength. His body is built for endurance, but he can't bench press hisown body weight. His muscel is lean, not bulky.
In D&D, compare the Monk, to the Fighter...sure the monk is strong, but I'd always say that a Monk *which in D&D is always the fighter type* would have more con than a fighter, but less strength because the monky doesn't work out his body to be powerful, he's fluid; however, from trainning he's gained greater stamina than the fighter who only works when he has to.

 

[fuindordm]

I don't understand. In game terms, I'm looking for a character who would be weak and high con. A 5 Str, 16 Con type of person. Weaker than average, but tougher than average.

Bilbo Baggins?

 

[Roman]

Thanks for the links Celebrim and mmadsen!

 

[mmadsen]

In general, you can not have "too many" stats for realism.

Agreed -- except that those many stats should not all be independent, and when they're all 90-percent correlated with something we can call "strength" ... well, as you point out, it's simpler to just have one strength stat and use feats -- or even just hand-waving -- to handle the subtler differnces.

Thanks for the links Celebrim and mmadsen!

You're very welcome. It's a fascinating topic.

(As an aside, the Hero system manages to model basic exercise physiology remarkably well by having an Endurance stat, which models anaerobic endurance, a Recovery stat, which models aerobic capacity or VO2max, and a Strength stat, which models, well, strength.)

 

[pawsplay]

Agreed -- except that those many stats should not all be independent, and when they're all 90-percent correlated with something we can call "strength" ... well, as you point out, it's simpler to just have one strength stat and use feats -- or even just hand-waving -- to handle the subtler differnces.

The problem with that road, is that in real life, Constitution and Intelligence correlate pretty highly. In fact, "fitness" ratings tell us that someone with a high degree of ability in one area is more likely to have a high degree of ability in another, for virtually any two traits that can be described as a kind of health, fitness, or capability rather than a simple variation. Good neurological health is correlated with endurance, good coordination, mental health, cognitive ability... strength correlates with endurance, and also a commanding physical presence ...

A good womb experience and good nutrition is the road to a good ability score array.