Should the Alignment Scale always be known to a Player as a Resource Track?

[Desdichado]

Unless you're a paladin, who's abilities are tied to maintaining his alignment, why would PCs really care overly much about where their alignment is anyway?

That's where I'm struggling to see how it's anything at all like a condition track.

 

[Dausuul]

Unless you're a paladin, who's abilities are tied to maintaining his alignment, why would PCs really care overly much about where their alignment is anyway?

That's where I'm struggling to see how it's anything at all like a condition track.

In the OP's game, it appears your character becomes an NPC if s/he becomes Chaotic (this is evidently either OD&D or BECMI, so Chaotic is the equivalent of Evil). Seems a little extreme to me, but I agree that in such circumstances a warning system of some kind is appropriate.

 

[the Jester]

Unless you're a paladin, who's abilities are tied to maintaining his alignment, why would PCs really care overly much about where their alignment is anyway?

That's where I'm struggling to see how it's anything at all like a condition track.

Early editions, alignment change had serious penalties, especially when you go 1e or older.

 

[howandwhy99]

As I stated above, "Chaotic creatures and elements do shift Alignment according to the same rules as other aligned elements, but killing allies is considered a Chaotic act so..." ...so I'm not really in the debate about how evil a creature needs to be to cause an alignment shift. And evil creatures killing each other certainly don't count as lawful acts in my game.

In the case of a gradual shift, I think some bad dreams/sleepless nights as the pc tosses and turns over his changing value system is appropriate... in other words, a warning of sorts... but no, I don't think there should be a "smoking gun" that tells them where they are on the alignment scale.

This is brilliant. I think dreams are a traditional means of communication from Gods. This has a lot of basis in the real world as prophecies, communication from the dead, enlightenment, and the like are often understood as dream-like states. I think I'll make direct communications from Gods cause the recipient to be in the Unconscious Condition in regards to the rest of the world. This really works for me, thanks!

Player / Characters definitely should not know their alignment status, but the Players should definitely have a WAY to know the kind of actions the DM will Rule Good/Evil/lawful/Chaotic.

Paladins determine their own Code and give it to me before game play. I make sure to work with them until these incorporate all actions which lead to Neutral or Chaotic Alignments. All extra details are rules the Player wishes to live by. Breaking those does not cause Alignment Shift or loss of Paladin status, but they can choose to penalize themselves however they see fit.

That works for anybody though. I used to roll a d6 to see if an old PC would buy just one more round whenever he was in a bar as I saw him as a drunk. It was not a DM rule, just my own.

 

[WayneLigon]

Players do not know what will cause Alignment shifts in the same way they do not know what will cause HP loss.

The Phylactery of Faithfulness provides that. It's one of the cheapest Wonderous Items you can get, and it'll warn you beforehand if an action is out of alignment plus tell you what your alignment status is. It'll warn you of cursed items that change your alignment, etc.

but a PC Alignment shift to Chaotic (or Evil in AD&D) has the same effect as many other resources brought to zero. It means starting the game over again at level 1, zero XP.

Huh? In AD&D, you lost a single level. 3E, there is no penalty other than barring you from entering certain classes or forcing an exit from a class you're in.

 

[DracoSuave]

The idea of a measured scale, per se, is something that makes no sense in application.

'Wow, you're one killed orphan away from Chaotic Evil, Billy!'

Especially considering that singular grand acts of goodness don't redeem evil characters in the same way that a singular grand act of evil can damn a good character.

 

[Desdichado]

Huh? In AD&D, you lost a single level.

Whoops! I'd forgotten that!

 

[Dausuul]

Especially considering that singular grand acts of goodness don't redeem evil characters in the same way that a singular grand act of evil can damn a good character.

Not sure I agree with this. Literature is full of evil characters who undertake a single grand act of goodness, which is implied to redeem them. Problem is, goodness is usually defined in terms of self-sacrifice, and a grand act of goodness requires a correspondingly grand sacrifice, which is usually fatal to the person performing it; so we don't get to see how the redemption plays out.

 

[Umbran]

Not sure I agree with this. Literature is full of evil characters who undertake a single grand act of goodness, which is implied to redeem them. Problem is, goodness is usually defined in terms of self-sacrifice, and a grand act of goodness requires a correspondingly grand sacrifice, which is usually fatal to the person performing it; so we don't get to see how the redemption plays out.

perhaps the most commonly recognized example: Darth Vader, killing the Emperor and being mortally wounded in the process.

 

[howandwhy99]

Huh? In AD&D, you lost a single level. 3E, there is no penalty other than barring you from entering certain classes or forcing an exit from a class you're in.

This is OD&D, so the loss of a PC to NPC status means starting over at level 1. I did mention above that the character could be converted and become playable again, so the penalty is not absolute.

Of course, this a rule behind the screen, so I could House Rule it. But it makes sense according to the rules I'm using. Level loss isn't related to Alignment shifting. (edit: outside of alignment-based classes)

Especially considering that singular grand acts of goodness don't redeem evil characters in the same way that a singular grand act of evil can damn a good character.

As per the bottom of the original post, I'm not interested in why Alignment tracks should not be used. They are essential in my game.

For a Chaotic creature to become Lawful the conversion process is usually a long time, but spells and other magics can cause an immediate change. (Helm of Opposite Alignment anyone?) If I allowed Chaotic PCs, I suppose they could become Lawful by working for the forces of Law. A grand act might be had by giving up a large portion of personal resources. Like giving everything one had to the church and vowing to serve it. The latter part is essentially a conversion act for a Neutral PC.