Should the keen quality even exist?

[Storyteller01]

I have a class for you: Mastersmith (I found this online and tweaked it to fit my campaign)

Great. STOLEN!!

 

[RandomPrecision]

I don't think it is the person that is rolling the dice that WotC thinks will finding it tedious - it is the 4 other people waiting for their turn to come up.

That's why you roll 2d20. It doesn't take any longer than 1d20. If they find combat tedious when you have an Improved Critical/Keen rapier, and you're rolling 2d20, they'd find combat tedious with any weapon.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I posted this over in the rules section on the energy weapon thread & it seems to be highly appropriate for this thread too, just double check the formula for the flaming burst weapon - it looks a little iffy.

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Equal fighters with same bab & +4 damage before magic item consideration, one has a +3 longsword & the other a +1 flaming burst longsword. I'll use a 50% confirmation roll and base chance to hit (determined by a +1 weapon).

+3 longsword
0.6 * ((4.5base + 4dam +3sword) * 1.05crit) = 7.245

+1 flaming burst longsword
0.5 * (((4.5base + 4dam +1sword) * 1.05crit + (0.05confirm * 5.5flaming burst)) +3.5flame) = 6.875

I would suspect that as the average damage goes up the better the flaming burst. Due to the exponential cost factor & the solid returns for every single +1, improved critical rather than keen would be a better choice for the fighter - if there is a feat to spare.

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I guess this thread has pointed to specific roles that keen fills better than improved critical when they do not stack. That would indicate that keen does still have a reason for existing.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Very good points. Keen might serve better as a +2 quality.

Better yet, let 'em stack again.

I do both. Keen is +2 and stacks with Improved Critical.

On a side note, Vorpal is +2 and increases the critical multiplier by 1. It stacks with Massive Critical.