Should there be Repercussions for This? (opinions wanted)

[Nifft]

I suspect that this example reveals a misunderstanding of the place of bandits in medieval and ancient society.

Actually, it's a refusal to equate D&D-World with medieval and ancient society.

The example is "humans with human motivations who have not yet hurt anyone, and are not Evil with a Capital E".

-- N

 

[Numion]

I smited the Post Reply button once too much

 

[Numion]

But, what if the paladin was not in an evil country? What if he was operating in a respected, good, law-abiding nation? I will concede that a paladin is not required to recognize the authority of an evil dictator. But he must balance his actions with temprance between what is Lawful and what is Good.

Would a paladin be in his right to slay a man who was Evil (note the big E) and assaulted the paladin with nothing more than his fists? What if the man was a boy? Or even a toddler? (All along being Evil.)

It depends. I say that the paladin has the right and duty to punish evildoers. However, a punishment other than death is a punishment too. In the cases you listed a lesser punishment is in order. I'm just saying that death is a fitting punishment for severe wrongdoings like, say, worshipping an evil god.

Now that you thought of your answer.

That was a no-brainer.

What if the toddler was an orc child? Is the paladin in the right to committ genocide on an evil race because what might be? If your answer differs between the two races are you suggesting that a paladin is righteous enough to defy discrimination? Where does it end?

I've heard justifications before of slaying every last member of a humanoid tribe in the name of law and good.

It doesn't end. Remember that the paladin has to, according to his code, to prevent any threat to innocents. Orc babies have nothing to do with this issue - unless the paladin is planning on running an orphanage for the orc toddlers. It's not his job.

 

[Numion]

What about taking the accused to the paladin's church to be judged by the curia (or some ruling body of priests)?

Whats the point of being Paladin then? Surely the priests could hire Bounty-hunters to bring the people to judge, if thats what the priests at the church fancy.

A paladin is fully capable of executing the gods will by himself. To use him as a bounty-hunter would be wasting his abilities, and restricting him needlessly from doing the gods work.

 

[Nifft]

What if the toddler was an orc child? Is the paladin in the right to committ genocide on an evil race because what might be? If your answer differs between the two races are you suggesting that a paladin is righteous enough to defy discrimination?

This is campaign-specific.

IMC, Orcs are a Free Race. They were born, not created, and have free will.

IMC, Goblinoids are a Damned Race. They were created unnaturally and lack free will.

It's Good to kill baby goblins.
It's Evil to kill baby orcs.

-- N

 

[Hjorimir]

What if the worshipper of the evil deity is a child? At what point does innocence become conscious decision? At what point does a child become a man? Just playing devil’s advocate here.

I certainly agree that the role of the paladin is the sword of his god. But that sword must be used in temperance with what is righteous. Otherwise it looks just as bad as the tyrant’s sword. There needs to be a way to distinguish the two.

 

[frankthedm]

What is an evil act? Ultimately, this is in the hands of the DM to truly decide. Personally, I would rule that murder is evil. Just because somebody is themselves evil does not mean that killing them is not murder. Superman is LG, and he turns crooks in to the police rather then killing them. Why does he do this? Becuse callous killing of those who you consider evil isn't right. Self defense is one thing, killing in cold blood is another. If your foe throws down their weapons and surrenders, it is evil to kill them, even if the enemy is Orcus himself.

Exhibit A for why people need to keep thier modern morality OUT of D&D.

 

[Nifft]

What if the worshipper of the evil deity is a child? At what point does innocence become conscious decision? At what point does a child become a man?

IMC, you can't be 1st level until Adulthood, which is an age listed in the PHB. You can't be an insane priest of an evil god until you're at least 1st level, and even then you're an apprentice. IMC, you take full responsibility for your own actions around 3rd level.

Now, I agree that it's better to convert than to smite. However, it's also good to smite.

-- N

 

[Hjorimir]

This is campaign-specific.

IMC, Orcs are a Free Race. They were born, not created, and have free will.

IMC, Goblinoids are a Damned Race. They were created unnaturally and lack free will.

It's Good to kill baby goblins.
It's Evil to kill baby orcs.

Good point. But I got the impression that the prisoner was human. Humans are certainly not a damned race in the campaign (if it is, I'm missing something). The paladin in question had already accepted surrender and made the conscious decision to place the prisoner in his charge. As a charge, the safety of the prisoner is the paladin's responsibility. His deity, for the slaying of the prisoner, should punish the paladin. Paladins are not ordinary men...they are held to a higher standard. Ergo the basis of the paladin code being more than just Lawful Good.

 

[The Sigil]

Exhibit A for why people need to keep thier modern morality OUT of D&D.

Clearly, a paladin adheres to some moral code. This suggests that some sort of morality must exist. Modern morality is convenient because it is familiar to most people. What specific moral code that someone submerged in modern morality can understand would you suggest, Frank?

This is not a troll attempt, I'm genuinely curious. For a paladin to exist as a paragon of virtue, there must be some definition of virtue... curious to see what you propose that should be.

--The Sigil