Should WoTC Bring back Classic D&D?

[Shadowslayer]

I don't see much point to re-releasing any of those old books. Just don't see there being that big a market for it.

As far as the Basic Game, I'll reiterate what I've said in the past. Its a neat idea but doesn't go far enough. They should put a PHB, DMG and MM in that box right along with the tiles and minis. I don't care if each is only 32 pages or so. If they made it so it was as playable as the game stands now, but up to 10th level or so, then they'd have something.

Right now the Basic Game is a teaser product. Its nice, but "Go up a couple levels and now please buy our "real D&D" books"...I think that's a rip-off personally. If they did it my way, it'd still be somewhat of a teaser product, but a complete stand alone game too. This product would belong on the store shelves right between Monopoly, Risk, and Clue rather than in game and comic shops.

I still think its amazing, Hasbro being what it is, that this hasn't happened yet in some form.

 

[prosfilaes]

It seems to me that if group A is running a game with 'core rules only' and group B is running a game with 'core rules + every WotC supplement published', the rules being used in those two groups are going to differ far more than the rules of B/X D&D differed from those of 1e AD&D.

But if group A buys anything--and if they don't, WotC doesn't care about them--they're going to buy the same books as group B.

 

[RFisher]

I find it very hard to believe that there are very many of us who really know: (A) How a company like Hasbro or one of its subsidiaries decides what products to produce...or (B) Whether it would be profitable.

Fully admitting that I don't really know either, I have to say--to no one's surprise--that I think it would be a great idea. (^_^)

To my way of thinking, classic D&D should be like Monopoly or Chess. It should be perpetually in-print, doesn't need constant changes, & doesn't need constant expansions. It's a staple.

Unfortunately (for me), though, it'd probably mean the RC. The RC is fine, but not (IMHO) the pinnacle of the classic line. & while the original rules would be cool, something more polished would be (again, IMHO) preferable.

What I'd love to see would be the (yeah...no suprise here) 1981 Basic & Expert rulebooks combined in a single rule booklet. Put it in a box set with dice, a pad of character sheets, & a compilation of the B & X modules. (But not the In search of adventure compilation.) I'd buy a copy for every 10-12yo I know.

I'm sorry--putting aside my rules preferences--I just don't find the 3e or 3.5e substitutes for a basic set as something that would capture a kid's imagination the way the old basic sets did. I don't know why. Maybe because they come across as too boardgame-ish.

 

[jmucchiello]

Still, wasn't the Moldvay Basic set only 3 levels. What did you do after those levels? Create more characters to run from 1st-3rd? Create your own advancement for above 3rd level?

You bought the Expert box that cover 4th to 14th level. It's actually an excellent way to divide the rules. Spells and monster take up a boatload of space but the first book has to have all the combat and adventuring rules. So you make the basic set just a few levels so you only need 1st and 2nd level spells and low level critters in it. The next book expands your options into the meat of the game and you have a follow up book for higher level concerns. I'd love to see a 1-4, 5-10, and 11+ breakdown release of 3.5. (In 3.5 the middle book would have a narrower range because it would be the book with prestige classes in it.)

 

[Glyfair]

You bought the Expert box that cover 4th to 14th level.

I'm sorry. I thought Odhanan's point was they shouldn't be a seeming money sink by requiring you to buy more products to continue in the game.

To me, needing to buy 3 core books with all you need (after you test the game with the introductory set) seems preferable to needing to buy a new set after you reach a certain level. Needing to buy a new set to hit 4th level, then a new set to hit 15th level, etc. until you have all 5 sets seems to be more of the "if you want to be able to hit 4th level, buy more things."

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

It makes little sense to re-release "classic" D&D -- but I think it makes a lot of sense integrate classic D&D's strengths into the next edition (whenever it comes).

The old Basic D&D sets fit an entire game into a small package, and that game was very playable. The rules did not require careful study, they didn't get in the way of play, they certainly didn't require software tools, etc.

Ideally the next edition of D&D would be built on a much more streamlined core -- with plenty of supplements for the hardcore fans.

I am really not trying to be a smartass here. I really want to understand you POV.

If that were the game I wanted to play, I would push aside all the books and keep them for DM inspiration only. Then I would create a 1-page set of rules with a limited set of classes, skills, feats as the the starting point. There would be no skill descriptions. No skill points. For skills you have, your ranks = level. Skills you do not have you have effective ranks = 1/2 level. You gain skills like feats -- every once in a while you get to pick one that fits your character. Some classes get more than others. (Ditto feats.) DCs will alway be 5, 10, 15, 20, or 25. Just keep a running list of hard to remember rulings as we come to it. The DM hands out descriptions of spells only as needed. Keep the spell list small to start.

A class description would be something like:

Fighter: Good BAB, Good Fort save, Good HP. Weak Skills. Starts with all weapon & armor proficiencies. Start with two skills (<list of options.>)

I know that you have enough 3e rule knowledge at the tip of your brain that the only issue is how to start the campaign from a simpler footing and stick with that style... Do you really need a book to tell you how to do this?

 

[Whimsical]

I think it would be great for the hobby to have a D&D Basic Set that (1) Does not require-include D&D miniatures and (2) does not encourage to upgrade to a full D&D set of core books "ASAP" (after just two/three levels).

For me, as a customer, that makes me feel like offering a blank check with the parents name and signature on it to a young kid: that's a gift that will cost rather than benefit in the short term. That's not the feeling I had from the Basic Moldvay set.

My friend bought the 3.0 basic set for his young daughters and they played it repeatedly, going through the same adventures over and over with different characters and with different players. For what it was, it was all they needed. They played it just like a board game.

The oldest daughter (13 yrs) has become a full gamer. She gamed with her dad, uncle and cousin at the last gaming con we went to.

 

[Sejs]

It would be nice if WoTC revitalized the Classic D&D branch of the game. Leave d20 Basic/3.x alone and add a cleaned up version of the Moldvay/Mentzer rulebooks to the product line. The D&D market has already been split--as evidenced by numerous threads such as the above (I don't know how to hyperlink it) and the success of rules lite retro RPGs--so why not capitalize on it?

THAC0, non-weapon proficiencies, and racial level limits?

No thank you.

 

[Valdur]

Seems like some of you aren't familiar with Cook/Moldvay D&D. Let me clear up some things:

THAC0, non-weapon proficiencies, and racial level limits?
No thank you.

Cook/Moldvay did not use THAC0 or non-weapon proficiencies. It did have racial level limits.

I'm sorry. I thought Odhanan's point was they shouldn't be a seeming money sink by requiring you to buy more products to continue in the game.

To me, needing to buy 3 core books with all you need (after you test the game with the introductory set) seems preferable to needing to buy a new set after you reach a certain level. Needing to buy a new set to hit 4th level, then a new set to hit 15th level, etc. until you have all 5 sets seems to be more of the "if you want to be able to hit 4th level, buy more things.".

I'm not sure what your referring to here so excuse me if I misunderstood...

If you were referring to the Cook/Moldvay rules, they consisted of two 63 page booklets: the Basic rules (B) and the Expert rules (X). The Basic rules took you from level 1-3, the Expert rules took you from level 4-36. Each booklet was the PHB, DMG and MM all rolled into one 63 page booklet!

No additional supplements or rules were required or even made available. That is because the game was so rules lite that the DM used his judgement to determine things that are covered by skills, feats and countless tables in 3E. This actually made the DM's job much easier because all he had to do was apply common sense and not worry about what rules covered the situation and the page number.

If you were referring to incorporating concepts from B/X into 4E...
---A lot of wargame/strategygames are produced with multiple tiers of rules. That is, tier 1 is a complete game but is limited in details and bells & whistles. Additional tiers do nothing but add on additional details whith each succeeding tier. This allows new players to easily learn the flow of the game before burdening them with additional details. It also allows veteran players to play a simpler faster playing game if they choose to do so.

This would actually be a great marketing move for D&D. (1) it allows new players to learn the game without being intimidated or turned off by a lot of details (2) it allows WoTC to sell a lot of additional books that add more rules/details to the game--even more than in 3.5 for those that desire this. This allows players to choose the level of complexity and detail that they want in their games and does it in an easy, modular format. It takes all the work out of trying to add or remove rules from 3.5 without having to rebalance and consider all the implications of fiddling with the system.

I'm not saying this is how it show be. I'm not even saying this is a great idea. I'm just saying that a more streamlined, less rule intensive system (while keeping the best aspects of 3.5) should be considered if and when WoTC decides to develop 4E.

 

[Glyfair]

If you were referring to the Cook/Moldvay rules, they consisted of two 63 page booklets: the Basic rules (B) and the Expert rules (X). The Basic rules took you from level 1-3, the Expert rules took you from level 4-36. Each booklet was the PHB, DMG and MM all rolled into one 63 page booklet!

So, what were the Companion Set, the Master Set & the Immortals Set (admittedly, few would tread into the last of these)?

My memory has it that Basic was 1-3, Expert was 4-14, Companion was next followed by the Master set. As I said, I really only delved into Holmes, but I do remember these sets and own the Rules Cyclopedia.