Shouldn't dinosaurs be animals instead of beasts?

[Tetsubo]

I happen to agree that the dinosaurs should be listed as animals and not beasts. I've always included a "Lost World" in my campaigns. So while dinosaurs are "prehistoric" in the real world they would be "contemporary" in the campaign world. Rare, darn unusual but animals. A Druid or ranger from such Lost World would be completely in their rights to have a dinosaur companion. Or use a dinosaur wild shape.

MotW question: What would you call an Animal Lord that choose the dinosaur as their Totem? What would they have for a choice of Feats and special abilities?

I also agree with the current research that dinosaurs weren't lizards but very bird-like.

This thread has me wanting to play in a Lost World game now.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

A 20th-level druid has 20HD to play with in animal companions.

Druid A, Ted Traditionalist, picks up a dire tiger (16HD, 120hp) which has an attack routine of 2 claws (+18) and a bite (+13), 2d4+8, 2d6+4 respectively. The tiger has a 10' reach, and can pounce and rake.

Druid B, Denny Dinoman, picks up a tyrannosaurus (18HD, 171hp) which has an attack routine of 1 bite at +20, doing 5d8+13. The t-rex has a 15' reach, and can swallow whole.

Druids are already pretty powerful. I'm not saying it'd be out of line to allow a druid to have a dinosaur animal companion, but I can certainly see why the designers decided to exclude them as the default rule. The weakest dino in the SRD (deinonychus, 4HD) is already large. By 8HD (megaraptor) they're huge. It's pretty potent stuff.

 

[Wolfspider]

A 20th-level druid has 20HD to play with in animal companions.

Actually, unless this has been changed (heavens forfend!), a 20th level druid would have 40 Hit Dice to play with in animal companions (2 HD per level for animal friendship).

A better comparison would be a dire shark and a tyrannosaurus. They are equal in size and both can swallow whole. (Although, for the life of me, I can't understand why the shark doesn't do a lot more damage with its bite.) Of course, not every campaign will be water-based to allow for the diry shark, but in the same way not every campaign will allow druids access to the King Tyrant Lizard.

Dinosaurs are powerful--but certainly not as powerful as the solars and planetars other 20th level spellcasters will be summoning with impunity. Sure, the dino will stick around between adventures while the other things go back to their planar homes, but that just means the poor druid will have to find some way to feed the thing!

 

[Tempuswolf]

Actually, unless this has been changed (heavens forfend!), a 20th level druid would have 40 Hit Dice to play with in animal companions (2 HD per level for animal friendship).

Changed twice, first time in the DMG pg. 46, now in MotW Chapter 4, pg. 36-37.

 

[Wolfspider]

Yes, I was just reading over on one of the MotW threads and noticed this.

But now I'm confused. What does MotW actually say? The DMG says a druid or ranger can have double his or her level in HD of animal companions under "optimal conditions"--not adventuring in cities, etc.

Ack! I just checked the PHB errata before more my above post and couldn't find anything dealing with animal friendship. When and where did this change take place? Sure, it may be more balanced, but when the spell description of animal friendship so plainly spells this out (and my ultra-conservative DM doesn't call me on it), what am I to think?

EDIT: On second thought, this rule really doesn't apply that much to Sedek since he is a rather settled druid. He rarely leaves the Hool Marsh (the adventure just seems to come to him), so his two giant crocs really wouldn't feel the need to abandon him. (I can't imagine them actually travelling out of the swamp anyway.)

Of course, that does put a real limit on any dino companion he might pick up in the Amedio. No T-rex for me! Unless I want to take up residence there...probably not.

A couple velociraptors or a megaraptor will have to do.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Changed twice, first time in the DMG pg. 46, now in MotW Chapter 4, pg. 36-37.

I don't have MoTW yet, but from the PHB, second printing, pg 35:

...an adventuring druid usually can only maintain animal friends whose Hit Dice total up to her level.

Also, upon second glance, I found that the Tricerotops has the same HD as the Dire Tiger, and would make for a better comparison. Overall, I'd say that dinosaurs aren't extremely overpowered, but they are more advantageous than other critters, especially at lower levels, because they can become huge with relatively fewer HD than regular animals.

As for the question of the Animal Companion vs. other spellcasters summoning things, I tend to disagree. A druid can summon things with Summon Nature's Ally as well. The Animal Companion is an added perk the druid gets on top of things that can be summoned by spellcasting, so I wouldn't use the creatures a wizard or sorcerer can summon as a means to justify the power of an Animal Companion.

What I do use to justify the power of the Animal Companion is to take a druid + AC and compare it to another class. The overall power of the druid + AC should be roughly equal to the other class. As it is, the druid and his Animal Companion, after taking things into account such as awaken, animal growth, and greater magic fang already pushes that envelope. I don't see a need to empower the druid any further.

Of course, YMMV.

 

[Wolfspider]

I added some comments to my previous post, just so you know.

I don't have MoTW yet, but from the PHB, second printing, pg 35:

Ahhh, second printing. I have the first. I swear that I checked the errata I downloaded and couldn't find anything....

Yeah, I hadn't thought of an enlarged awakened dino before....I guess I'm still wrapping my sluggish reptile mind around the concept of just having a dino companion. That's just nasty!

 

[Lord Pendragon]

And just to be contrary about the whole thing, if it were in my campaign, I'd allow it in a second. It's a neat concept, and works well with a lizardfolk druid. But I'd also make a memo in my notes to grant the other PCs a few perks as well to balance everyone out.

 

[Wolfspider]

But I'd also make a memo in my notes to grant the other PCs a few perks as well to balance everyone out.

Or perhaps limit a lizardfolk druid who does control dinosaurs to only be able to affect reptiles with his or her abilities...that's an idea that makes a bit of sense. I really can't imagine a wolf being very attracted to my scaly druid who smells suspiciously of rotten fish, stagnant water, and swamp gases.

 

[Brother Laszlo]

Uh, dinosaurs can't be animals because they never existed. The universe is only 6,000 years old and God made fossils to test our faith.