Shouldn't we wait until passing judgement?

[Prophet2b]

Good for you. Let me know if you enjoy it. I hope you do.

I doubt I'll remember this thread in May, but if I do, I'll let you know. And if I don't enjoy it, I'll be honest about it, too! Brutally honest.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

I'm confused, how can you like something that doesn't exsist yet? I thought this forum was for the discussion of WotC's impending release of 4e.

Exactly. If the OP is going to ask for objectivity he needs to ask from BOTH sides of the fence, not just the naysayers.

 

[Imaro]

Have you ever looked forward to something? Christmas? The next episode of a TV show? The next book in a series?

I believe there's even a word for "liking something that doesn't exist yet". Anticipation.

I've looked forward to these things, but I can't actually like them until they exsist. Here you go...

an·tic·i·pate (n-ts-pt)
v. an·tic·i·pat·ed, an·tic·i·pat·ing, an·tic·i·pates
v.tr.
1. To feel or realize beforehand; foresee: hadn't anticipated the crowds at the zoo.
2. To look forward to, especially with pleasure; expect: anticipated a pleasant hike in the country.
3. To deal with beforehand; act so as to mitigate, nullify, or prevent: anticipated the storm by boarding up the windows. See Synonyms at expect.
4. To cause to happen in advance; accelerate.
5. To use in advance, as income not yet available.
6. To pay (a debt) before it is due.
v.intr.
To think, speak, or write about a matter in advance.


I do not think that word means what you think it means. If anything you could like the prospect of a new edition, but you can't actually like 4th edition at this point...you don't even know what it is yet.

 

[Henry]

In my opinion, it's unheard of in any industry. I'm not even sure if Microsoft is as nasty to their customers.

Personally, having a career in Information Technology, I beg to differ. I've had to learn the ins and outs of five distinct operating systems from Microsoft in ten years' time (95/98, Millennium, 2000, XP, and Vista), and each one has its own set of registry eccentricities, features, driver compatibilities, and headaches in order to support problems arising from them.

Going back to RPG's, some game systems are on their 5th and 6th versions now, in less time than D&D has been through three. Heck, technically D&D has been through about TEN versions over thirty years (ask Diaglo). While I'm not happy with some of the announced changes, I really can't agree that they are any more willy-nilly with changes than other industries or RPG's, and some might say they're less than quite a few of them - because they can't change too often or risk alienating their user base too much. I suspect like all other versions before it, 75% or more will migrate despite complaints, and just keep on playing like before. I may not migrate, myself, but I'll probably own the books eventually, because... it's D&D.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Have you ever looked forward to something? Christmas? The next episode of a TV show? The next book in a series?

I believe there's even a word for "liking something that doesn't exist yet". Anticipation.

So anticipation is valid and not looking forward to something or being concerned about the changes that the new edition may or may not bring isnt? Is that how this works?

 

[rjdafoe]

I have seen a few people on this and other boards declaring their hate for the new edition and their intentions to not buy the 4e books.

Honestly, isn't it a little too soon to be declaring this? It's been barely over a week since 4e was announced. We do have Star Wars SAGA as a preview, but really there is SO much we don't know.

You might look a little silly declaring your hate now and your love a year from now

I agree.

I would also add the same for people gushing over it. I understand wanting to buy it to make a decision, but saying right away that your moving to it or not is a bad decision, IMO.

 

[Imaro]

Really? Most mainstream RPGs go through editions faster than D&D does. Vampire: The Masquerade had three editions before Vampire: The Requiem came out. Call of Cthulhu is on edition six or seven. And so on.

This is the only part I wanted to comment on, since I've seen it tossed around alot. These "editions" are totally compatible with the earlier ones (with changes basically on a level maybe a little higher than eratta, certainly less than 3.0 to 3.5) so I think it's a little disingenuous to compare them to D&D. I know for a fact CoC 1st edition is far more compatible with 6th ed. than AD&D 1e is with 3.5. It's not just the number, it's also how compatible it is.

 

[Doug McCrae]

If the OP is going to ask for objectivity he needs to ask from BOTH sides of the fence, not just the naysayers.

If someone comes to ENWorld and says "D&D sucks" that's trolling. If someone posts to a thread about topic X saying "X sucks" that's threadcrapping. I believe overwhelmingly negative posts about 4e in the 4e sub-forum should be regarded in the same light.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

The hard part about juding this, one way or another, is that we only have small pieces of information.

Those little things are just that, tiny little details about the edition. Until we see the WHOLE thing, any picture we get about how 4e 'will' be is skewed and incomplete.

 

[rjdafoe]

1. I've spent too much money on 3.5. I still have plenty of material to use. So unless WotC makes it 100% compatible with the previous edition (which will be impossible), they lose on this point.

That we don't know if could be converted or not.

2. I won't support the DI. Really, it's too much to spend every month for what we used to get for free. But then I'd hate to be considered "not a real D&D player." So unless WotC decides to allow free downloads of the important stuff to those who spend their money to purchase their books, they lose on this point.

Read the FAQ, it has been linked here many times. This is has to be the most misunderstood aspect of the announcement. I am getting to think that a WotC employee should go to everyones house and sit down for 2 hours so everyone can understand what it is and stop with the misinformation. This is as bad as the misinformation on Vista on the internet!

3. They cancelled Dragon and Dungeon, and for that, the wound is still fresh. (How soon the ENWorlders forget! I, for one, won't let Paizo's death be in vain!)

While I agree, the print should have remained, they are still there. If yoou subscribed, it is not much more for all of the fixings.

4. For all the small guys, Necromancer, Goodman, and the other 3rd party publishers and the freelance authors who are getting jerked around by this scheme, just like they were with the release of 3.0, I won't support 4.0. (And guess what, I'm one of those freelance authors.)

3.5 is still around and will be as long as the freelance people like yourselves let it.

5. Also, I've been unhappy with WotC's content as of late and the direction they've been taking. The Mike Mearls monster previews border on sacrilege in my mind. Seeing this as a preview window into the design philosophy of 4.0, I can see it's one I don't share.

Can't please everyone. D&D is what you make it, your D&D does not have to go by the letter of all the rules if you do not want it to, that is, when we lnow the rules and not just some vague information with no real knowledge on the subject.

These I think are all good reasons to refuse to spend the $240 that will be required to start up a D&D 4.0 campaign ($40 per rulebook, and $120 per annum subscription to play).

There will be a free aspect, no one knows what it will be though. What is the 3 core books are $20 like when 3.0 came out?

So, no thank you, WotC. If enough of our fellow enthusiasts would stand up against this scheme, we wouldn't keep getting jerked around by frequent rules changes, poor quality editing in books, etc. Vote with your wallets, ladies and gentlemen.

The only way I would feel jerked aorund is if WotC came to my house and burned all my books and then forced me to buy 4.0 books.

And no, I don't hate D&D.

Not touching that one.....