Shugenja, Cleric or Spirit Shaman?
- Thread starter DungeonmasterCal
- Start date
Dr. Strangemonkey
First Post
At medium levels Druids make more than decent front-liners, but you would need to rest between takes more often.
I wish I knew more about the Spirit Shaman - it's gotten very good reviews.
I wish I knew more about the Spirit Shaman - it's gotten very good reviews.
monkeynova
First Post
I voted for Cleric...
...but that was because, game-wise, it seems more flexible than either Shugenja (sp?) or Spirit Shaman. RP-wise, the latter two do seem interesting, although if that is your chief concern, I'd probably give the nod to Spirit Shaman: at higher levels, it seems like a more interesting class to play. (Turning physical undead may be a problem, though; you may want to take the Spontaneous Healer feat to mimic the cleric's ability to spontaneously cast cure spells.)
(And, to be honest, if you're going to be facing a lot of undead, I would take a cleric, and as many undead-fighting goodies from the Complete Divine, Book of Exalted Deeds, and Libris Mortis as my DM would allow...)
monkeynova
...but that was because, game-wise, it seems more flexible than either Shugenja (sp?) or Spirit Shaman. RP-wise, the latter two do seem interesting, although if that is your chief concern, I'd probably give the nod to Spirit Shaman: at higher levels, it seems like a more interesting class to play. (Turning physical undead may be a problem, though; you may want to take the Spontaneous Healer feat to mimic the cleric's ability to spontaneously cast cure spells.)
(And, to be honest, if you're going to be facing a lot of undead, I would take a cleric, and as many undead-fighting goodies from the Complete Divine, Book of Exalted Deeds, and Libris Mortis as my DM would allow...)
monkeynova
tetsujin28
First Post
None of the above: I tend to play clerics as my primary character. The anthropologist in me rebels against my playing a 'shaman' who's not a shaman and a 'shugenja' who's not a shugenja.
DungeonmasterCal
First Post
Heh...the biologist in me balks against every violation of the laws of nature found in rpg's...but I soldier on! 
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
Well if you are dealing with plenty of undead, I'd go with a Cleric/Wizard/True Necromancer build.
Alternately you could go with the Shugenja and specialize in Fire spells, IIRC fire does nicely vs. non-skeleton undead.
Alternately you could go with the Shugenja and specialize in Fire spells, IIRC fire does nicely vs. non-skeleton undead.
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
Looks like I voted for Spirit Shaman by mistake, I meant to click on the Shugenja.
carpedavid
First Post
I'd actually recommend playing the OA shaman with the 3.5 revisions from Dragon Magazine (basically, you get an toned down version of the monk's unarmed strike progression). For good examples of how those play out in combat, check out Stone Bear in PirateCat's story hour or Kakeru in my own story hour.
From my experience, the shaman makes a decent 2nd-line fighter at higher levels, gets wads of decent spells, and can befriend animals. I have not had the opportunity to take a look at the Spirit Shaman, so I can't really compare it to the regular Shaman.
With regard to the Shugenja - they're quite flavorful, but they don't seem to be overly versitile. I haven't seen anyone play one, though, so take that for what it's worth.
From my experience, the shaman makes a decent 2nd-line fighter at higher levels, gets wads of decent spells, and can befriend animals. I have not had the opportunity to take a look at the Spirit Shaman, so I can't really compare it to the regular Shaman.
With regard to the Shugenja - they're quite flavorful, but they don't seem to be overly versitile. I haven't seen anyone play one, though, so take that for what it's worth.
Gez
First Post
I'd advise a Paladin, myself.
Human Cleric 1/Paladin 6 (cleric being your first level, and paladin your levels from 2 to 7).
First level feat: Divine Vigor (Complete Warrior)
Human Bonus Feat: Extra Turning
Third level feat: Sacred Vengeance (Complete Warrior)
Sixth level feat: Leadership
Cohort: 5th-level* Human Healer (Miniatures Handbook). Human Bonus feat: Augment Healing (Complete Divine), 1st-Level Feat: Spontaneous Healer (Complete Divine), 3rd-Level Feat: Reach Spell (that way your cohort can prepare a few cure light wounds spells as 30-ft. rays, useful both for healing distant allies in time, or as attack spells against undead, remember to add both Healing Hands' and Augment Healing's effects to the spell, so cure light wounds may very well be 1d8+10 instead of 1d8+5; if the range isn't needed they can be "spontaneoused" into cure serious wounds at about 3d8+14 hp, oh, and see into it to take Sudden Empower at level 6).
* Your back-up character will be level 7, so the cohort can be up to level 5.
This dual build will give you a strong warrior able to do a bit of healing and vade-retroing of the evil undeadsies. With the good domains for your first-level as a cleric (like War and Sun, yum), you can be even more efficient, getting a free Weapon Proficiency for your weapon of choice and the ability to perform a Greater Turning once in a while. (Otherwise, you may try to get the Disciple of the Sun (Complete Divine) feat to do greater turning nonetheless.) But your best use of your turn undead ability will be to use it to fuel Divine Vigor (extra speed and hp for several minutes) and Sacred Vengeance (+2d6 to all your attacks against undead for one round). To maximize your enjoyment of Sacred Vengeance, you may ditch Divine Vigor in exchange for Two-Weapon Fighting. If your deity's weapon is a double weapon, that's a fine investment, since you'll have Weapon Focus thanks to the War domain.
Dang, I want to play that, now.
Voted cleric, but only for one level.
Human Cleric 1/Paladin 6 (cleric being your first level, and paladin your levels from 2 to 7).
First level feat: Divine Vigor (Complete Warrior)
Human Bonus Feat: Extra Turning
Third level feat: Sacred Vengeance (Complete Warrior)
Sixth level feat: Leadership
Cohort: 5th-level* Human Healer (Miniatures Handbook). Human Bonus feat: Augment Healing (Complete Divine), 1st-Level Feat: Spontaneous Healer (Complete Divine), 3rd-Level Feat: Reach Spell (that way your cohort can prepare a few cure light wounds spells as 30-ft. rays, useful both for healing distant allies in time, or as attack spells against undead, remember to add both Healing Hands' and Augment Healing's effects to the spell, so cure light wounds may very well be 1d8+10 instead of 1d8+5; if the range isn't needed they can be "spontaneoused" into cure serious wounds at about 3d8+14 hp, oh, and see into it to take Sudden Empower at level 6).
* Your back-up character will be level 7, so the cohort can be up to level 5.
This dual build will give you a strong warrior able to do a bit of healing and vade-retroing of the evil undeadsies. With the good domains for your first-level as a cleric (like War and Sun, yum), you can be even more efficient, getting a free Weapon Proficiency for your weapon of choice and the ability to perform a Greater Turning once in a while. (Otherwise, you may try to get the Disciple of the Sun (Complete Divine) feat to do greater turning nonetheless.) But your best use of your turn undead ability will be to use it to fuel Divine Vigor (extra speed and hp for several minutes) and Sacred Vengeance (+2d6 to all your attacks against undead for one round). To maximize your enjoyment of Sacred Vengeance, you may ditch Divine Vigor in exchange for Two-Weapon Fighting. If your deity's weapon is a double weapon, that's a fine investment, since you'll have Weapon Focus thanks to the War domain.
Dang, I want to play that, now.
Voted cleric, but only for one level.
The choices that spring to mind for me are a Paladin and a Green Ronin Shaman (the Spirit Shaman is not bad, but the Green Ronin Shaman book presents a much more consistant and flavorful version). I'd also suggest giving thought to the Tomb & Blood version of the Pale Master. The new version in Libris Mortis is more like a normal mage with some interesting bonuses. The old only gets 1/2 spell progression, but d6 hp and some cool undead summoning abilities. Undead aren't great at killing other undead, but they can be quite good at blocking undead while the rest of the party takes them down with spells or whatever.
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