D&D 5E Signs & Portents (that we can read into) about the ETA of 5E

I would not expect a Basic box set as an early release. We've already seen with both the Keep on the Shadowfell "4E preview" module and with the Essentials Red Box what happens when you publish products prior to the rules being 100% locked. It is not pretty.

WotC should not release any product until the playtesting is truly and genuinely over, and the rules are 100% locked down and unchanging. Then and only then should any idea of a "basic game" be put out, and it most definitely should be designed with the assumption that a character created with it could be upgraded into a Standard character should the need arise.

A basic set published prior to a 100% lock will result in rules in that set that will not be able to be updated to a Standard game, thus rendering the basic set fairly useless. Hopefully they have learned their lesson and do not treat a basic set as a "preview" game, but rather just another publishing method for the actual game.

In regards to when... I don't think they should rush to GenCon either. Save it for Christmas 2014 if not 2015. Because if they really knew what was good for them... not only would they release the 3 main books and a Basic edition book or boxed set at the same time... they'd also have their D&D Insider online builders (character, monster, and maybe adventure) up and running on Day 1 of release. That way you buy the books, and immediately join DDI to start building things for your game straight away.
 

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Don't forget, 4E introduced the idea of a basic set with a different ruleset to the 4E rules... and it fed into a book that wasn't even called the Player's Handbook. That was a dumb move and flew in the face of one of the few hard and fast rules of running D&D as a business: sell PHBs.

That was the rule with 3e. But things have moved on. The rule now is: sell DDI subscriptions.

(Or, for Paizo, sell Adventure Path subscriptions.)
 

I would not expect a Basic box set as an early release. We've already seen with both the Keep on the Shadowfell "4E preview" module and with the Essentials Red Box what happens when you publish products prior to the rules being 100% locked. It is not pretty.

WotC should not release any product until the playtesting is truly and genuinely over, and the rules are 100% locked down and unchanging. Then and only then should any idea of a "basic game" be put out, and it most definitely should be designed with the assumption that a character created with it could be upgraded into a Standard character should the need arise.

A basic set published prior to a 100% lock will result in rules in that set that will not be able to be updated to a Standard game, thus rendering the basic set fairly useless. Hopefully they have learned their lesson and do not treat a basic set as a "preview" game, but rather just another publishing method for the actual game.

In regards to when... I don't think they should rush to GenCon either. Save it for Christmas 2014 if not 2015. Because if they really knew what was good for them... not only would they release the 3 main books and a Basic edition book or boxed set at the same time... they'd also have their D&D Insider online builders (character, monster, and maybe adventure) up and running on Day 1 of release. That way you buy the books, and immediately join DDI to start building things for your game straight away.

Above nails my concerns.

Lately WotC has not been good a making everything come together. Maybe they've learned and will be applying those lessons.


But that's a lot of corporate turnaround...and I'm just not feeling it.
 

Games only have one 40th Anniversary. D&D will be in the news and it would be a mistake not to have product available for sale to synergize with that free publicity.

This is big and something I didn't fully take into account. At the least I think we're going to see a year-long "celebration" that will be centered on the release of 5E. When that will be, who knows, but I would think between June and GenCon, otherwise most of the year has gone by. Perhaps we'll see a November deluxe/gift/anniversary editions of the three core books for the holiday season.

Unless Wizards marketing team is completely incompetent that is.

Their track record is not good, unfortunately. I don't want to point the finger, but I feel that a lot of 4E's failure with regards to PR rests on Bill Slaviscek, who is no longer at WotC. So maybe they've learned their lesson...

I'm pretty sure that WotC is going to drop a bomb and start releasing the game on January 2014, probably a basic box set with basic D&D with rules for levels 1-10. Several months later they will release the core books of the standard version.

Define "pretty sure."

But again, I don't think January is likely. I could see something early on, but the complete game? That would mean that it is in final editing right now, which I think we would have caught wind of. Quick, check Wikileaks!
 

On a side note, anyone know when in 1974 OD&D was first published, that is what the date was? I assume that it wasn't a clear day, that it was a gradual and casual roll-out as a basement operation, but maybe there's a specific day that is associated with the release? I couldn't find anything on Wikipedia.
 


I'm pretty sure that WotC is going to drop a bomb and start releasing the game on January 2014, probably a basic box set with basic D&D with rules for levels 1-10. Several months later they will release the core books of the standard version.

Warder
Doubtful for two big reasons.

1) Boxed sets are hard to sell at an affordable price. Paizo sells theirs for $50 and had to do sneaky things to turn a profit.
If WotC does boxed sets again they will likely be flimsy things like Gardmore Abby and Gloomwrought.
2) Boxed sets take a year to get from the printer in sellable numbers. Streamlining things and a small print run might get that down to eight months. The game still wasn't ready back in last May. We're not likely to see boxed sets prior to 2015.
 

Re: the release date of OD&D, I found my answer in the Gary Gygax entry on Wikipedia - it was January. There were pre-release copies out in lat 1973, but the box set came out in January of 1974.

Hmm. It is really hard to imagine something being ready in two months, but at the same time that's the official anniversary. I'm wondering if something will come out...but what?
 

Doubtful for two big reasons.

1) Boxed sets are hard to sell at an affordable price. Paizo sells theirs for $50 and had to do sneaky things to turn a profit.
If WotC does boxed sets again they will likely be flimsy things like Gardmore Abby and Gloomwrought.
2) Boxed sets take a year to get from the printer in sellable numbers. Streamlining things and a small print run might get that down to eight months. The game still wasn't ready back in last May. We're not likely to see boxed sets prior to 2015.

Hush you, don't try confusing me with facts. :)

Warder
 

Let's look at actual signs:

The only edition ever released on an anniversary year (15) was AD&D Second Edition. The fact that it was an anniversary year was not emphasized. Post-Gary TSR was distancing itself from its OD&D roots.

The only anniversary to get a special treatment was the Silver in 1999. Special trade-dress for Silver Anniversary, 3 modules (Return to Keep on the Borderlands, Return to White Plume Mountain, and Against the Giants: the Liberation of Geoff) plus the 25th anniversary Collector's set. All for 2nd edition and all nostalgia items. They released a bunch of 2e then announced 3e at Gen Con once it was all out. The rest of the year until the release were the 'blow up your campaign' modules.

Yes, 2014 is the 40th or Ruby anniversary. Do they want to start marking Anniversaries with Edition launches every 5 years? Do we really want 6th or 7th edition for the 50th Golden anniversary?

What else do we know:
Info from panels ...
Greg Leeds WotC CEO: adventure support is aiming for non-edition centered like the Sundering series going forward (plot, scenario, fluff, non-tactical, no imbedded crunch).

Mike Mearls: focus on setting and adventures not copious rules.

Mike Mearls: Gen Con 2012. Would like to a wide release preliminary product to shake out the system after the second internal playtest so they don't have to do 5.5. Probably the real 5e Beta (the open beta was Concept testing and market research).

Chris Perkins: After December, it's all hands on deck for 5e.
Chris Perkins: Pre-3e wasn't digital --> subtext 3.x and following is digital so production should be faster.
Chris Perkins: Marketing will announce launch. Art budget is huge.
Chris Perkins: PDFs all selling FAR beyond expectations

Mike Mearls: Expected the Open playtest to last 2 years.
Mike Mearls, summer 2013: The Open playtest is ahead of where they expected, ending Open playtest early with September packet (which became late October packet as 'final')

Other info:
Last survey wrapped up 10/28/2013, still collating data.
Jon Schindehette is still working for WotC but is looking for the next big thing, still doing the D&D brand art bible and still over-seeing 'huge Next art budget'.
Probably almost ready to release post Open playtest build to Alpha testers.
DDI is currently holding steady, with the subscriber group between 73,392 (static) and 87,437 (fluctuates). I'm inclined to go with the fluctuating number.
Movie rights in lawsuits with both Sweetpea/Warner Brothers and Hasbro/Universal looking to "Marvel"ize the Brand.

So we have the D&D brand still in the running for the "$50 Mill with potential for $100 Million" status with Hasbro. The movie is the strongest evidence for this and getting the game rights back is also an indicator.

However, the movie and the game rights can be quite superfluous for the TTRPG. But they are extremely important for the brand which is where alot of the public comments from Chris, Mike and Greg Leeds point to. Stewards of the BRAND.

On the TTRPG side, everything points to getting people playing D&D, whatever that edition is. Since we're still in process of lobbying for OUR D&D to become everyone's D&D through Next, it is harder to see that. If you like 4e, play it, house-rule it, run the adventures from Next and previous with it. If you prefer 3.x, ditto. OSR or 1e/2e? Play it like you've been doing for the last 20 years+. For the casual and new market, Next will be accessible. So the TTRPG Brand is OD&D through Next, just not whatever release is currently being produced.

The modules section seems to be more for the situations where you have differing play-styles in the same group. So when you can't agree on a legacy edition to play, play Next with options.

Today we got the 2 more core books for 4e in PDF (Rules Compendium and MM3) and MM2 was last week. So the 'D&D for everyone' PDF initiative seems to be rolling along at now 8 releases per week (up from 7 last week and 4 when it started last January).

So where does that leave timing for Next?
From a financial perspective WotC has DDI still rolling although the 'Dark' period starting in January may be dark financially as well. But for now 73k to 87k users or more isn't bad (somewhere in the $5 million per year range). Quitting now wouldn't be prudent and Subbing for just Dec/Jan would make a lot of sense to get the backlog. However after everything is done in January the ongoing sub has less value.

As far as PDFs go, I'm actually spending more on PDFs this year than I did in the middle of 3.x to 4e. Anecdotal, but I think Chris's comments and the increased pace point to it being a decent chunk of change.

Looking at the context I'd say the original plan was not for a Gen Con 2014 release. If it was, they would have announced it at Gen Con 2013 and they would have ended the Open playtest much earlier. I do think they may have been in the process of deciding they could push it up around Gen Con which is why the eZines are going dark. Pushing up the release does create an 'all hands on deck' environment and modern publishing can do a fast turn-around at a cost.

The pushed up release is propably more due to Fan expectations than the original plan. Which I think may be unfortunate that they would rush the process because the fan are 'demanding' to be sold a product for the 40th. Nothing else about the state of the game implies a Gen Con or earlier release had been planned. But they may give 'us' what 'we' wanted because of some 'magic' formula involving an arbitrary 'Anniversary'.

I think the original plan was:
2 year open playtest/market research floated by PDF sales and DDI with a follow-up 6-12 closed Beta resulting in a Core Rules Beta product, followed 9-12 months later by the full Errata'd release.

Open 2012-2013
PDF 2013-2014
Sundering modules and books 2013-2014
Beta Product 2014
Final release 2015 probably Summer.
 

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