Silence - Broken? & My House Rule

[two]

Actually, a Silent Image does just fine in this capacity. You produce the image of a wall, or sheet of iron, or whatever spell effect you'd like to mimic, and place it 10' in front of the offending caster. That caster is not interacting with the wall, so he doesn't get a save. And because he no longer has line of effect to his target (because the target now has full concealment) his spell either fizzles, or if the DM is leinient, he gets to do something other than cast a spell.

So perhaps a wand of Silent Image is even more useful for less gold until folks have ready access to True Sight because you realize it's an illusion, and therefore you still have line of effect to the enemy caster...

I'm confused -- is line of effect the same as line of sight?

I thought not. You can cast through a blob of pitch-black darkness, for example, but not through a thin wall of paper.

Confused. In this case I thought, for example, a fireball spell would go right through the illusionary wall and impact whatever is beyond it. Maybe the wizard caster wouldn't KNOW for sure it was an illusion, but did the caster have a chance to stop the spell even if he thought the wall was real?

*confused about line of effect*

 

[Thanee]

I think he meant line of sight.

Bye
Thanee

 

[werk]

Would silence not be broken, in your opinion, if you took the verbal component out of dispel and greater dispel? That way silence can be countered or removed once in place.

(Any boy scout spellcaster will tell you that if you are going against another caster you should be prepared to have silence thrown at you.)

 

[ThirdWizard]

Actually, a Silent Image does just fine in this capacity. You produce the image of a wall, or sheet of iron, or whatever spell effect you'd like to mimic, and place it 10' in front of the offending caster. That caster is not interacting with the wall, so he doesn't get a save. And because he no longer has line of effect to his target (because the target now has full concealment) his spell either fizzles, or if the DM is leinient, he gets to do something other than cast a spell.

So perhaps a wand of Silent Image is even more useful for less gold until folks have ready access to True Sight because you realize it's an illusion, and therefore you still have line of effect to the enemy caster...

I don't think you can stop your action once it is declared... So, he'll try to cast his spell. If it is a spell that you don't need line of sight for (like fireball) then he'll cast right on through it, and probably realize that its an illusion. If its a spell that requires line of sight (like magic missile) then it should fizzle.

Note that this means if you drop a real wall and he's casting fireball, then he goes boom.

EDIT: As for silence, I can't comment on it, because I can't recall it ever being cast in my games...

 

[Gaiden]

I don't know if this is the correct RAW interpretation but it is how I would adjucate the silent image:

Readied silent image of a stone wall to be summoned between you and caster.

Mage casts fireball.

Technically, the fireball would still go off, as far as I can tell. It would not fizzle, just detonate earlier. Remember that the fireball is initially a small bead that bursts (without an explosive effect) upon impact. Here is the precise part of the spell that I would take into consideration with the illusory wall. The fireball would fly right through causing an interaction to allow the mage a save. If successful, resolve fireball as normal. However, if unsuccessful, I would now rule that the wizard could not see his target. However, the spell is already in effect. So effectively he would be shooting blind. I would make him make a spell check following spot rules for penalties on distance with a 50% miss chance. for every 1 he missed the check by, the fireball would be displaced by 5' in a random direction (roll d8). Again, I doubt this is RAW but makes the most sense to me on how to handle it.

Let's instead say the mage was casting lightning bolt. I would do something similar but have each 1 pt missed change the angle by 1 degree.

Do what makes sense. If in midcasting a wall suddenly appears, the caster could choose to finish the spell and hope for the best or disrupt the casting himself and lose the spell.

In fact this gives me an idea for a feat that gives you the ability to change the specifications of casting of a spell mid-cast. So if a wall was suddenly put up while casting said fireball you could change where you were originally going to launch the bead.

 

[TheEvil]

Personally, my favorite use for Silence is to place it on a tripping or grappling fighter type and have them get engage the caster. Monks work particularly well for this, as usual.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

From the SRD:

Silence
Illusion (Glamer)
Level: Brd 2, Clr 2
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a creature, object, or point in space
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates; see text or none (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes; see text or no (object)
Upon the casting of this spell, complete silence prevails in the affected area. All sound is stopped: Conversation is impossible, spells with verbal components cannot be cast, and no noise whatsoever issues from, enters, or passes through the area. The spell can be cast on a point in space, but the effect is stationary unless cast on a mobile object. The spell can be centered on a creature, and the effect then radiates from the creature and moves as it moves. An unwilling creature can attempt a Will save to negate the spell and can use spell resistance, if any. Items in a creature’s possession or magic items that emit sound receive the benefits of saves and spell resistance, but unattended objects and points in space do not. This spell provides a defense against sonic or language-based attacks.

As I interpret it, if it is cast on an object, the object gets no save. And if an object in the radius were to make a noise, it would be silenced, with no save. But, any creature within the radius of silence would get a save to resist it.

If you don't allow any save versus silence, that makes Silence an automatic counterspell when readied against any spell with a verbal component.

Incidentally, if casters are really worried about getting silenced, they can buy a Metamagic Rod. Cost: 3000/11000/24500 gp for a rod that lets you cast 3rd/6th/9th level spells. This won't deal with the (certain or not-so-certain) counterspell aspect of Silence, but it will allow you to cast spells if you're stuck in a silenced area and can't leave.

 

[Demoquin]

Cant the BBEG or any other spell caster use any other spell without sound? ta da


Seriously, you would expect the mage to do some research on this stuff. Hmm, if i cant speak in a silenced area .... then i will use THIS spell which only needs (xp, F, M,S)

Muhahaha suckers .... and now the 3rd lvl cleric dies .... a horrible death ... then re animate him .... and kill him again for being so stupid

 

[ThirdWizard]

As I interpret it, if it is cast on an object, the object gets no save. And if an object in the radius were to make a noise, it would be silenced, with no save. But, any creature within the radius of silence would get a save to resist it.

Whomever you are casting the spell on gets the save. So if you target a creature they get a save. Once the spell is cast, there can't be any sound in the area, and noone gets a save for that.

 

[TheEvil]

As I interpret it, if it is cast on an object, the object gets no save. And if an object in the radius were to make a noise, it would be silenced, with no save. But, any creature within the radius of silence would get a save to resist it.

The only problem with this interpretation is that it kind of contradicts the text of the spell. The save is Will Negates, see text. The only Will save that is given in the text is for the direct target of the spell. No mention is made of those who are in the area.