simple LA ECL question

[Coredump]

this came up on another board.

Race: Grog 3HD +2 LA starting as fighter.

Therefore starting as 6th level ECL. Therefore needs 6K to get to 2nd level fighter. Right?


1HD race +0 LA starts as fighter1
Has a character level of 1

1HD race +1 LA starts as fighter1
Has a character level of 2

2HD race +0LA starts as fighter1
Has a character level of 3

2HD race +1LA starts as fighter1
Has a character level of 4


This is what I read from the SRD. But it seems strange to me that if 1HD, that hit die gets 'forgotten', but if 2HD, they both are used.

Is this right? Can you explain the apparent disparity?

Thanks

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Sounds like you've got it right to me.

I agree that it can be confusing that with 1HD creatures you just ignore the racial HD, but that's just the way it is. Once you understand that the 1HD creature drop their racial HD, it isn't too bad.

 

[jmucchiello]

Is this right? Can you explain the apparent disparity?

Thanks

Yes. No. You're Welcome.

It's a hole in the system. The flaw I think is how ECLs work. Creatures should just have XP costs (or the equivalent). If you have an ECL +3 critter, the character has to earn 6,000 xp first, then the next 1,000 is level 1 as usual. Most ecls don't matter at high levels and this method takes that into account. Creatures with racial hit dice have to earn those hit dice as normal levels as well. But that's just my opinion.

 

[Victim]

Yes. No. You're Welcome.

It's a hole in the system. The flaw I think is how ECLs work. Creatures should just have XP costs (or the equivalent). If you have an ECL +3 critter, the character has to earn 6,000 xp first, then the next 1,000 is level 1 as usual. Most ecls don't matter at high levels and this method takes that into account. Creatures with racial hit dice have to earn those hit dice as normal levels as well. But that's just my opinion.

Actually, I think most LA matters more at higher levels. A 1st level 1/2 dragon in a 4th level party is a sad sight. A bunch of nifty powers and stats, but only 1 more HP compared to a starting character. He has little base attack or saves. At 17th level, he's regained most of the lost HP and will hit substancially harder than a normal fighter. Granted, the breath weapon is pretty useless, but the energy immunity is probably better at higher levels. A half dragon is probably better at higher levels than low.

 

[Li Shenron]

I agree that it can be confusing that with 1HD creatures you just ignore the racial HD, but that's just the way it is. Once you understand that the 1HD creature drop their racial HD, it isn't too bad.

Yes it's not a real problem, but it's effectively a little strange that there are no creatures which have 1 HD more than the dice from class. They either have 2+ racial HD in addition to class HD, or none.

Or am I wrong and someone knows of any?

How was it done in 3.0? For some reason I seem to remember something about always removing 1 HD from the total HD from race, but I have no idea which book I heard this from...

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Yes it's not a real problem, but it's effectively a little strange that there are no creatures which have 1 HD more than the dice from class. They either have 2+ racial HD in addition to class HD, or none.

Or am I wrong and someone knows of any?

How was it done in 3.0? For some reason I seem to remember something about always removing 1 HD from the total HD from race, but I have no idea which book I heard this from...

I think it was the same in 3.0, actually...though I could be wrong.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Ye hit the nail on the head Coredump.

 

[Coredump]

Yes it's not a real problem, but it's effectively a little strange that there are no creatures which have 1 HD more than the dice from class. They either have 2+ racial HD in addition to class HD, or none.

Or am I wrong and someone knows of any?

How was it done in 3.0? For some reason I seem to remember something about always removing 1 HD from the total HD from race, but I have no idea which book I heard this from...

Well, in theory....

Having a 4 HD monster is normally considered equivalent as a 4th level PC. So if the monster has some cool abilities that makes it more useful than 'normal' as a PC, it gets +X LA.

It stands to reason, that if they had some aspects that made it less useful as a PC, then it might get a -XLA

How about a race that could not talk with the other races (ala Wookie). And maybe had some other hinderence. They may warrant a -1LA. So that could do what you are talking about.