Simple Question on Huge Daggers and Tiny Longswords

[Hypersmurf]

In that case, all barkeeps should design their mugs as weaponry. Since they diminutive objects, humans would be unable to use them as weapons and the crockery would be safe in any tavern brawl.

Only if he designed them as Light weapons for Small characters.

"Generally", remember? There's nothing to stop you designing a Diminutive object as a Light weapon for a Medium character.

I doubt a Gauntlet makes the "Tiny" cut.

-Hyp.

 

[drnuncheon]

Cute picture, but of course there are dozens of different types of daggers, many of which, when increased in size, like very close the bastard sword Conan uses. There are also many types of longswords that, when made smaller, are virtually indistinguishable from many types of daggers.

Well, except for the fact that the hilt is completely wrong, sure. Which is sort of the point.

Don't just look at the blade, look at the entire weapon. Any kind of dagger that's increased on size is going to have a hilt that is way too big for a human hand to comfortably deal with. If it's only the blade that's changing, it's not an upsized dagger - it's a normally sized shortsword.

I would be very surprised if the daggers you referenced had a hilt half as long and half as thick as Conan's sword in the picture there. I'd suspect them of being letter-openers sold to tourists in Spain rather than any sort of actual weapon.

J

 

[Aaron2]

Because the improvised weapon rules only apply to "objects not crafted to be weapons".

Both arrows and crossbow bolts are explicitely mentioned as being improvised weapons despite the fact they are already weapons. The "Sometimes" before "objects" makes this rule less than clear.

Interestingly, I couldn't find any general rule for improvised melee weapons in 3.0, just for improvised throwing weapons (which has the same "sometimes object not crafted to be weapons" phrase).


Aaron

 

[Hypersmurf]

Both arrows and crossbow bolts are explicitely mentioned as being improvised weapons despite the fact they are already weapons.

No, they're not - they're ammunition. Arrows and bolts have no listed damage. They have no listed threat range. They have no listed damage type. They are not weapons.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

To illustrate how goofy the 3.0 way of doing things was, here is a picture of Conan weilding a size Medium dagger (which he can do without penalty in the 3.0 rules!):

 

[drnuncheon]

Very good point, Hong!

What you see here is Hong showing us a picture of a weapon with a very large blade that is still designed as a weapon for a Medium-sized person, as evidenced by the construction of the hilt. That of course is what makes all the difference - while the blade of the weapon may be excessively sized, and undoubtedly requires some kind of feat to use even two-handed (much like a bastard sword requires for one-handed use), it is still a two-handed Medium weapon.

Obviously a giant would have a great deal of difficulty weilding this gentleman's sword, for the same reason that medieval broadswords did not have hilts the diameter of pencils: it is difficult to get a firm fighting grip on something that size. If this were a weapon designed for a size Large or Huge creature, the hilt would have a much larger diameter to fit their hand properly.

Thanks for your input, Hong! I always knew you could be a productive contributor to the boards!

J

 

[The Little Raven]

No, they're not - they're ammunition. Arrows and bolts have no listed damage. They have no listed threat range. They have no listed damage type. They are not weapons.

-Hyp.

Read your books a little more closely, Hyp.

From the PHB, page 114:

Arrows: An arrow used as a melee weapon is treated as an improvised weapon (-4 penalty on attack rolls) and deals damage as a dagger of its size (critical multiplier x2).

Wow... that's listed damage and a crit range. Try harder next time.

 

[The Little Raven]

Particularly since the Light, One-Handed, and Two-Handed designations only apply to melee weapons.

Only in the PHB. The DMG lists firearms as one-handed and two-handed ranged weapons on page 145-146.

Strange that they didn't do that for the PHB ranged weapons.

 

[drnuncheon]

Only in the PHB. The DMG lists firearms as one-handed and two-handed ranged weapons on page 145-146.

Strange that they didn't do that for the PHB ranged weapons.

Maybe because all of the PHB ranged weapons (other than thrown ones) require two hands to operate? The limited exceptions (i.e. firing a crossbow one-handed) are noted in the descriptions.

J

 

[Hypersmurf]

Read your books a little more closely, Hyp.

Wow... that's listed damage and a crit range. Try harder next time.

That's not listed damage and crit range for an arrow. That's a "reasonable match" for an object not designed as a weapon.

It says at the start of the sentence "as animprovised weapon"! It's an example of taking an object not designed as a weapon and assigning it damage and crit range that it doesn't ordinarily have.

Unless you're treating it as an improvised weapon, and thus assigning it those stats under the "reasonable match" criterion, you'd look at the table - which has a "--" for damage, for threat range/multiplier, and for damage type.

-Hyp.