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D&D 5E Simulacrum

Adb0782

Explorer
One thing i still dont get about simulacrum: can the simulacrum i created copying my character cast simulacrum copying my character as well? Its not considered as im the caster? (it would be totally broke, i dont have any intention to become a sort of new rick sanchez and create a simulacrum army lol, im just curious to know if its RAW to do something like this, bcs i found nothing in the spell saying it cant and it looks kinda weird, as it mean i can theoretically create infinity simulacrum lol and the spell seem clearly intented for make me get only one simulacrum for time).

And also, it supposed to dont REGAIN spell slots, but can he RECOVER them with arcane recovery? As it should have the ability being a copy with halved hp, while "regain" and "recover" seem were intentionally used with 2 different meanings, so that made me think this way.
 

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Asisreo

Archdevil's Advocate
One thing i still dont get about simulacrum: can the simulacrum i created copying my character cast simulacrum copying my character as well? Its not considered as im the caster? (it would be totally broke, i dont have any intention to become a sort of new rick sanchez and create a simulacrum army lol, im just curious to know if its RAW to do something like this, bcs i found nothing in the spell saying it cant and it looks kinda weird, as it mean i can theoretically create infinity simulacrum lol and the spell seem clearly intented for make me get only one simulacrum for time).

And also, it supposed to dont REGAIN spell slots, but can he RECOVER them with arcane recovery? As it should have the ability being a copy with halved hp, while "regain" and "recover" seem were intentionally used with 2 different meanings, so that made me think this way.
For the first point, it depends.

One could make the argument that the Simulacrum is a whole separate entity and is therefore eligible for chaining. Indeed, the Adventure's League even references this so its possible this interpretation is RAW.

The safer interpretation, to me, is that the Simulacrum, being an exact copy, also copies the state of "having casted simulacrum" and if the simulacrum attempts casting the spell, it counts as the second time and therefore gets rid of them.


As to the second point, it feels 100% clear the Simulacrum gets nothing by doing anything even if their features let them.
 

FarBeyondC

Explorer
One thing i still dont get about simulacrum: can the simulacrum i created copying my character cast simulacrum copying my character as well? Its not considered as im the caster? (it would be totally broke, i dont have any intention to become a sort of new rick sanchez and create a simulacrum army lol, im just curious to know if its RAW to do something like this, bcs i found nothing in the spell saying it cant and it looks kinda weird, as it mean i can theoretically create infinity simulacrum lol and the spell seem clearly intented for make me get only one simulacrum for time).

As Asisreo mentioned above, the safest interpretation is that the status of "having cast simulacrum" carries over to the simulacrum of yourself (just like the status of not having the spell slot you used to cast simulacrum would carry), so the simulacrum can't cast the spell again.

Of course, there's still a way to do an arbitrary number of simulacra, but it requires two other individuals capable of using the spell (who trust each other a lot), which may be a big ask in normal groups.

And also, it supposed to dont REGAIN spell slots, but can he RECOVER them with arcane recovery? As it should have the ability being a copy with halved hp, while "regain" and "recover" seem were intentionally used with 2 different meanings, so that made me think this way.

No means of regaining, restoring, or otherwise reacquiring the lost spell slot should work (whether internal or external), though there's a couple of potential loopholes that I'm personally on the fence about (True Polymorph).
 

6ENow!

The Game Is Over
One thing i still dont get about simulacrum: can the simulacrum i created copying my character cast simulacrum copying my character as well? Its not considered as im the caster? (it would be totally broke, i dont have any intention to become a sort of new rick sanchez and create a simulacrum army lol, im just curious to know if its RAW to do something like this, bcs i found nothing in the spell saying it cant and it looks kinda weird, as it mean i can theoretically create infinity simulacrum lol and the spell seem clearly intented for make me get only one simulacrum for time).

And also, it supposed to dont REGAIN spell slots, but can he RECOVER them with arcane recovery? As it should have the ability being a copy with halved hp, while "regain" and "recover" seem were intentionally used with 2 different meanings, so that made me think this way.
Yeah, the spell is worded poorly.

Yes, RAW, a simulacrum can make another copy of you. If you have another 7th level slot (or Wish) at the time, the new simulacrum has them as well and can use either to make another simulacrum of you, etc. so you can have a near infinite number of simulacrums given enough time.

Intent: any beast or humanoid can have one simulacrum.
RAW: you can only have one simulacrum you've created at a time.

No, Arcane Recovery would not work as its purpose is to recovery expended spell slots--which the simulacrum spell explicitly prohibits.
 

jgsugden

Legend
There are not many lines I draw in D&D to limit players, but this is one of the most firm.

In my setting, the wizard that first came up with the idea of copying a person did really bad things with the capability. As a result, great powers stepped in and made a dictum. That dictum is revealed to spellcasters that learn spells like Simulacrum or Clone. One copy of a person at a time. Period. There is an "in game" group that makes sure nothing funny takes place.
 

Adb0782

Explorer
There are not many lines I draw in D&D to limit players, but this is one of the most firm.

In my setting, the wizard that first came up with the idea of copying a person did really bad things with the capability. As a result, great powers stepped in and made a dictum. That dictum is revealed to spellcasters that learn spells like Simulacrum or Clone. One copy of a person at a time. Period. There is an "in game" group that makes sure nothing funny takes place.
Well, i wouldnt allow to play multiple simulacrum as well, it was just something about i was curious, bcs RAW seem it perfectly work and it make really no sense.
 

fearsomepirate

Adventurer
One could make the argument that the Simulacrum is a whole separate entity and is therefore eligible for chaining. Indeed, the Adventure's League even references this so its possible this interpretation is RAW.

AL rules forbid chaining Simulacrum, but the RAW in the book doesn't. It really should, though.
 

I mean, there's this in the rules:
"If you cast this spell again, any currently active duplicates you created with this spell are instantly destroyed."

Which kinda means, even with the most lax and benign interpretation of the spell, you can never have more simulacra than 7th leven spell slots (plus wish), right?
 

fearsomepirate

Adventurer
I mean, there's this in the rules:
"If you cast this spell again, any currently active duplicates you created with this spell are instantly destroyed."

Which kinda means, even with the most lax and benign interpretation of the spell, you can never have more simulacra than 7th leven spell slots (plus wish), right?
The problem is you aren't casting it. Your simulacrum is.
 

Asisreo

Archdevil's Advocate
I mean, there's this in the rules:
"If you cast this spell again, any currently active duplicates you created with this spell are instantly destroyed."

Which kinda means, even with the most lax and benign interpretation of the spell, you can never have more simulacra than 7th leven spell slots (plus wish), right?
Indeed, and they get ever weaker and have less available Spell Slots every time.

In a game where the components are truly rare, you can best hope for a single Simulacrum without their 8th level slot.

Don't underestimate the action economy, though.
 

6ENow!

The Game Is Over
FWIW, because it seems like there is a bit of confusion for some posters, I will lay out the strict RAW version of the (practically) infinite simulacrums (note you must be 17th level with the Wish spell for this to work "easily"):

1. You have all your slots and cast simulacrum. Your simulacrum has all its slots except one 7th.
2. (OPTIONAL) You get in a long rest to replenish your missing slot (not necessary, but if you want future simulacrums to have it, why not?).
3. Your simulacrum uses Wish to cast Simulacrum on YOU, creating another simulacrum after 1 action.
4. This new simulacrum still has Wish because you still have it--you never cast it, your first simulacrum did.
5. "Next round" (i.e. 6 seconds later or so), your 2nd Simulacrum uses its Wish to make another simulacrum of YOU.
6. Next round, your 3rd simulacrum uses its Wish to make another simulacrum of YOU.
and so on.

Each simulacrum is a new copy of you, have all your spell slots if you rested. After using the Wish spell, each simulacrum will have all your spell slots sans the 9th. (Note, the original simulacrum will also be missing the original 7th level slot for the original casting you did.)

Basically, once you have the first, every round you can have another. Each having half YOUR HP, not each others', and most spells available to it. Within an hour, you could have about 600, within a day easily 5000 or more, etc.

This is why it is broken. The spell specifies if you cast it again, any previous simulacrum is destroyed. The problem is, YOU only cast the first one, after that each simulacrum is making another copy of you. To fix the spell, what it really should be, is:

"A creature (humanoid or beast are the only viable targets for the spell) can only have one simulacrum of itself at a time. If the creature is targeted by another simulacrum spell, any current simulacrum is destroyed instantly. If you cast this spell on another target and have a simulacrum in existence, that simulacrum is destroyed instantly."

In short, you can only make one simulacrum, and each target creature can only have one existing at a time.

Final note: You can do the same thing just using the Simulacrum spell, but then you would need a scroll of the spell for the initial casting, and then to have each new simulacrum cast the spell again, which is very pricy and time consuming to do. Same process: you make simulacrum using the scroll, it makes one of you using the 7th level slot, the new one also makes one with the 7th level slot (because you still have it), etc. If you don't have the scroll, you would need to be 20th level to have two 7th level slot--but by then just use Wish, it is faster and doesn't cost anything. shrug
 


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