Simultaneous Initiative + AoO

[radmod]

I was rewriting my 3.5 house rules, when I realized I had been inconsistent.

I use simultaneous initiative as I find it more realistic, quicker and easier. Essentially, all it means is that everything occurs in a round's "real-time". The only time you roll initiative is to determine the order of actions when actions occur at roughly the same time.

I'm pretty sure I've done the following (the inconsistency):
Case M: A mage is casting a spell. You move to strike at him before he completes. The mage DOES NOT provoke an AoO.
Case O: An orc attempts to flee. You move and intercept him. The orc DOES provoke an AoO.

Rather than just decide what's correct, I thought I'd see if anyone has any ideas/thoughts. I'll fix the wording later, but right now it easier to do it solely on the basis of a PC's move action. I'm thinking of five possibilities:

Option 1: (the Easiest) Neither provokes as they began their action before your move.
In both cases, neither provokes.
The problem with this is that anyone that moves through combat would not provoke against someone who also moved.

Option 2: Treat it as RAW. If their action is provoking by the time you get there, they provoke. They could abandon the provoking action if they want.
In both cases, they provoke.
While this may be the most realistic, I just don't like it from a gaming POV.

Option 3: You do not get an AoO if you move more than half your movement. Otherwise, RAW.
Obviously, in both cases, they provoke if you move up to half your speed.

Option 4: After your move, your adjacent squares are treated as non-threatened for any creatures currently in them. If a creature moves into a normally threatened square it will provoke if the actions does.
In case M, the mage (who does not move) will not provoke.
In case O, the orc does not provoke in his initially adjacent square, but will provoke if he then moves into a square which would normally be threatened (e.g. he attempts to run past you).

Option 5: Combine 3 and 4. After your move (which cannot be over half your movement), your adjacent squares are treated as non-threatened for any creatures currently in them. If a creature moves into a normally threatened square it will provoke if the actions does.
Same as option 4 but based on how far you move.

Any ideas?

 

[Celebrim]

You are overthinking this. I think I know what you are trying to achieve and I approve of it, but none of the things you described are actually consistant. You are probably ad hoccing every combat and not aware of it.

The only way to be consistant about this is to break the move and action portions of the round in to separate phases.

Ei.

You have a move phase. When it matters, all creatures move in reverse order of thier initiative, that is, the lowest iniitiative creature must move first. Movement based AoO's are provoked as normal.

Then you have an action phase. Action based AoO's (such as casting a spell) are provoked at this time. Actions are taken in initiative order. A creature does not cease to be flatfooted until after it has begun this action.

This simulates simultaneous action in as much that, for example, two melee combatants now can only become separated under the conditions you'd expect it - ei, the faster one runs away or the one with better reflexes dodges away - an archer can't simply break out of combat to fire an arrow unless his melee opponent allows it, etc.

 

[HoboGod]

I house rule a spontaneous initiative combat as well. I solve the problem of consistency by running the first round as normal. After the first round, players go first, monsters go second, and the consequences each round occur third. Any monster or player who dies, falls prone, and ect, does so on the third initiative of combat.

 

[radmod]

Ad hoc? No, my rules have been well defined for 20 years now. And that's the problem. Back in the 90's, due to a special movement circumstance, I was forced to create the equivalent of an AoO based on movement. Unfortunately, when recently rewriting the rules, I realized that, in addition to the AoO normally provided under standard initiative, I was also using my house rule based on movement. Hence, Case M (no movement by the mage) meant no AoO. Case O, because it involved movement by the Orc resulted in an AoO.

I tried the move phase + action phase for a few sessions but also found it unrealistic and did not allow for reaction. My group heartily accepted going back to the old way.

However, debating initiative styles isn't the purpose of my question/thread. Without a long technical post on how simul is done, just presume everyone moves at roughly the same time. Which of the AoO options do you think works best?
As for consistency, I don't understand, they are all consistent since you apply them consistently. You do realize I'm talking about selecting only one of them, right? EDIT: I'm not sure I made that clear about the options.

 

[HoboGod]

AoO tend to rely heavily on turn order. The only way to consistently use AoO where everyone goes at the same time is to do a complete overhaul of threatened squares. I suppose I would recommend that one's threatened squares are the squares they threaten at the beginning of the current round of combat and that threatened squares cannot be reassigned until the next round. This will have many flaws as well, however. If Creature1 moves to attack Creature2, then Creature2 moves to attack Creature3, Creature1 wouldn't make an AoO against Creature2 when logically it should. Only if Creature1 waited until after Creature2 made it's move action would it be able to make AoO when it moves. But if there isn't an order, then who's to say who goes first?

 

[radmod]

AoO tend to rely heavily on turn order. The only way to consistently use AoO where everyone goes at the same time is to do a complete overhaul of threatened squares. I suppose I would recommend that one's threatened squares are the squares they threaten at the beginning of the current round of combat and that threatened squares cannot be reassigned until the next round. This will have many flaws as well, however. If Creature1 moves to attack Creature2, then Creature2 moves to attack Creature3, Creature1 wouldn't make an AoO against Creature2 when logically it should. Only if Creature1 waited until after Creature2 made it's move action would it be able to make AoO when it moves. But if there isn't an order, then who's to say who goes first?

Well, in simo, it would depend on their actual moves. If C2 were moving away from C1, C1 would not get an AoO, or even a melee attack, depending on how far from C1, C2 is. That's where initiative comes into play. If C1 has a high enough initiative, he may get an attack. If C1 had to charge to reach C2, he never would (because it would take him the entire round to reach C2, who would be gone). Basically, you take a penalty to your initiative based on any action(s) you take before an attack. In reality, I modify the creatures initiative. BTW, that would be an example of when initiative would be rolled; when it matters.