Single Combat More Deadly for BBEGs in 3E?

[DaveMage]

In 1e 12th level PCs could kill Lolth.

In 1E Lolth only had 66 hit points.

 

[NewJeffCT]

In 1E Lolth only had 66 hit points.

And, the oldest, toughest most powerful dragons had 88... the toughest gods had 400, I think.

I think I posted a while back on another board that you could *technically* have 4 first level rangers in 1E that have more HP than the toughest dragon - rangers started off with 2d8 HP at first level, plus CON bonus. So, a first level ranger in 1E could theoretically have 24 hit points (8 + 8 and the d8s and 4+4 for an 18 CON)

And, now remembering about Lloth having 66, you could have 3 first level rangers with more HP than her.

 

[NewJeffCT]

When PCs can concentrate on one creature, they usually drop it quickly. If there's more than one, it's more interesting, unless the creatures are too weak by themselves.

Is that any different than 1E and 2E, though?

 

[ashockney]

The answer is really no. It's not even close. BBEG are much, much more powerful and would be more challenging than they were in previous editions.

However, ironically, in terms of game play they don't feel that way. Keep in mind that a BBEG to a campaign, of almost any level, in 1st or 2nd edition was Fzoul, Manshoon, a Beholder, a lich. Level didn't matter. CR/EL didn't matter. These guys were the menacing BBEGs! But in terms of actual game play compared to 3rd edition, people's experiences are very different. Due to the EL/CR system, a BBEG is typically just one creature, who could "challenge" the party by himself...not a ruthlessly evil, powerful, death-dealing machine, against a party of any level.